ALTA CEO Chris Morton on Fraud, FinCEN Rule & Future of Title | Title Agents Podcast Ep62

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Shamil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Title Agents Podcast, where we dive into strategies, challenges, and innovations shaping the title industry. Today, we're thrilled to sit down with Chris Morton, the new CEO of the American Land Title Association, or just ALTA, with a strong background in policy advocacy and association leadership.

Chris brings a fresh perspective to the table at a pitiful time for title professionals. We'll explore his vision for ALTA, the biggest regulatory issues on the horizon, and how title agents can stay ahead in a fast-changing landscape. Let's get into it. Well, Chris, thank you for joining us, and welcome to the show. It's an honor to have you here.

Thanks, Paul. It's great to be here, and I really appreciate the opportunity on my end, and thank you for all you do on behalf of the industry. You're welcome. So, as we start, we'd love to hear your story, your background, how you got started, and how you got introduced to the title industry specifically. Yeah, so, you know, it's interesting.

I had a background in housing and real estate finance, sort of in the policy realm, right? Worked on Capitol Hill, worked in some of the bank regulatory and financial services regulatory agencies. In fact, I was at the precursor for the Federal Housing Finance Agency. I worked at Fannie Mae for a number of years back, several years ago. So, I had a background in housing and real estate finance.

You know, I think the thing that drew me to Ulta when I received a call, you know, where they were interested in talking, now over five years ago, I think it was almost six, you know, was really about the mission, really. The mission is so important and so exciting to me in terms of the work that this industry does to ensure that property rights are protected, that the American dream is alive and well for the American consumer at the end of the day. So it's really about that mission and the people. I mean, the people in this industry are tremendous. You know that.

You've been around it and, you know, one of the leaders in it. So, that's exciting. When you work with great people, that makes all the difference in the world. Well, as we know, you have a strong background in advocacy and policy. How do you see those experiences shaping your leadership style at Ulta?

Yeah. So, you know, look, at the end of the day when you're advocating, you first really have to listen and learn what, you know, shared objectives you have with policymakers and regulators and how you can collaborate to find solutions to common problems. And I think, you know, for me, that's the foundation is listening and learning and then building relationships. It's just like any kind of other business that anyone is in. Relationships are key and trust is a critical part of those strong relationships.

And so, you try to educate and bring facts and information that is trusted. But at the end of the day, it's about making sure you're finding a path forward that shares objectives, you know, moves that ball on behalf of both the people you're working to advocate, you know, for as well as the, you know, the folks on the other side of the table. I think as I think about this industry, again, back to the people, our team here at Ulta, the professional team is tremendous. They're skilled, they're so dedicated, and the industry just is so energetic and energizing in that they're always looking to solve problems and help. And that's at the core of the values that this industry has.

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Visit alltechnationaltitle.com or DM us today to start the conversation. So Alltech plays a critical role in protecting property rights and supporting title professionals. How do you see that mission evolving under your leadership? Yeah. I mean, I think, look, the mission really doesn't change, right?

Protecting property rights is at the core of that. Safeguarding the American dream sort of at a broader level and supporting everything that the professionals in this industry need to both grow their business, be better at what they do, serve their customers and consumers. So that mission is there. I think how we deliver on the mission is what continues always to evolve with change and with things that happen in the marketplace. And so one of the big areas that we're focused on in that is combating anything that heightens risk, whether it's fraud or other bad actors, criminal actors, advocacy and education is foundational to the association.

We'll continue to push forward on that, but always looking also kind of around the corner. How is technology coming into the fore as it relates to the industry and how can we be on the cutting edge of the curve and not behind it? So we're always thinking about what are the tools, the training, the resources and education that we can provide to our members to be that trusted voice for the industry, to be that trusted partner to our members, you know, and helping them be better. You mentioned like cyber is one of the hot topics. And I would love your take on like, it seems like in majority of the cyber attacks or the hacks, like the realtor is the weak link.

We do as a title industry, the mortgage industry, do a very great job as having secure platforms for emails and doing all the things you are supposed to do. But that weakest link is always a realtor. Is there, do you guys talk to NAR or other bodies to kind of maybe, I wouldn't say professionalize it, at least minimum having like a realtor, you have to have secure email, you can't just use Yahoo or AOL. Yeah. I mean, look, here's what I would say.

We all have a responsibility, right? It's not any one party that is at fault in these circumstances. The criminal actors are extremely sophisticated. We all have to be better about how we approach these issues of fraud, particularly, you know, as we are at the center of the transaction and it's really our job as the title industry to protect the integrity of that transaction. So what I really want to focus on is, yes, we have to educate our partners.

We have to continue to provide them with insights and tools that we're using and partner effectively. But I also think, you know, we have to focus on what we're doing as an industry and continue to get better there. You know, one of the things that I'm really excited about as it relates to the area of sort of fraud evolution, you know, seller impersonation fraud is now a new risk that's out there. We've taken a very proactive approach. You may have seen recently we put out two new policy endorsements for post policy coverage for seller impersonation fraud risk.

I think that's going to go a long way. You know, it follows on the innovation we did back in 1998 when we put out the homeowner's policy of title insurance, which has post policy protection or post closing protection. And so we're going to look at those ways, you know, to both provide that insurance coverage. Also though, on the front end, to make sure we're working with trusted partners and platforms that really secure, you know, secure the transaction. But yeah, at the end of the day, it's all of our responsibilities.

We have to educate the broader real estate ecosystem and we take that seriously. We continue to try to do as much as we can in that regard. And we're working with, the other thing I'll say, the final thing is we're working with law enforcement, you know, the FBI to make sure that they're aware of what we're doing. We're sharing information about what we're seeing. And we're working with consumer groups like the AARP to make sure that they're also But yeah, at the end of the day, it's all of our responsibilities.

We have to educate the broader real estate ecosystem and we take that seriously. We continue to try to do as much as we can in that regard. And we're working with the other thing I'll say, the final thing is we're working with law enforcement, you know, the FBI to make sure that they're aware of what we're doing. We're sharing information about what we're seeing and we're working with consumer groups like the AARP to make sure that they're also getting the message out. So it's a really, you know, a holistic approach in terms of players.

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Alltech National Title, smart transitions built to last. You just mentioned FBI. Yeah. Because we're in the front line. We've had cyber fraud happen to us and we had a guest a couple weeks ago, Kevin Thatcher, who just wrote a book, Intercepted, a similar scenario.

But to all those in the front line that really got hacked, got kind of defrauded, the FBI would not even lift a finger for $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 loss. That's just now way beneath their minimum threshold. So, literally, like the satellites are left on their own. So, you're supposed to file a report, ic3.gov, that's the first thing you're supposed to do, but really nothing happens. We don't see anything.

Well, I would say, look, this is a process, right? Those partnerships are really important. We've had really great collaboration with the FBI, with IC3, with entities who are vendors in the space that are doing the right thing and are members. I think the key is the more that people will take the time to report the information, build the data set, make sure that we're active in the process. I think sometimes, particularly on the customer side, there's a reluctance maybe to provide that information.

I think the more we participate, the more we collaborate, the better we're going to be as it relates to those partnerships. And again, I go back to what I said about just about the risks. It's all of our responsibilities to do everything that we can in our space and then share what we're doing with those agencies, with those folks in the real estate marketplace, and with the consumer. And if we do that more and better and think creatively as we encounter these new challenges and develop new tools like we've done with these endorsements, I think we're all going to be better off. We've seen a lot of regulatory movement at the state and federal levels recently.

What's on Alta's policy radar right now that our agents need to be paying attention to? Yeah, I think the biggest thing right now obviously coming right at us is FinCEN's real estate reporting role. December 1st is the implementation date. We have been very focused on working with the membership and the industry to train folks about what is going to be required. Just to back up, this is going to require reporting on all cash transactions, no dollar threshold where you have a trust or LLC in the transaction.

And we have advocated particularly from the perspective of an industry that's 90 plus percent small businesses to continue to try to find ways to narrow the scope of that rule. That doesn't stop on December 1st. I think once we go live, we need to continue to encourage our members in the industry to provide feedback about what they're encountering in terms of challenge and other things. But we've done a FinCEN boot camp for the industry and the membership back earlier this summer. We're doing another one given the overwhelming response in the interest September 16th and 17th to ensure that people understand, again, how to comply, what the parameters are of the requirements in the rule.

And we're also, honestly, continuing to advocate with policymakers on Capitol Hill and within the administration to make sure that they truly understand the burden. I mean, we're talking essentially up to half a million dollars on average. I'm sorry, $500 million on average for the industry on an annual basis. That is significant. And so we want to continue to fight to reduce that burden and we're not going to stop the effort to do so because we think it's critical.

What's your take on the role of the title insurance in a change in the housing market, especially as affordability, FinTech disruption, and AI enter the conversation? Yeah, look, I mean, technology is now advancing at the most rapid pace we've seen probably in any of our lifetimes with the advent of artificial intelligence and sort of all of those things that are out there. You know, it's our responsibility and we take it very seriously to be on sort of the forefront of educating our members about how AI has actually been integrated into title operations. And, you know, it is going to drive efficiency and it's going to drive time savings and cost savings and all of those things. What it won't do, I think, particularly in the near term, is replace the expertise of title professionals and what it will allow them to do with those efficiencies, though, is really focus their energies and their attention.

And I think that's really exciting. One of our, I'm going to give credit to one of our members, Phil Janney, you may know, who used the term AI for agent intelligence, right? This is the way we should be thinking about it. How do we elevate that value of the agent, the professional and the transaction and the time they spend on the highest and best use of their expertise and use the technology in a way that helps them? And so we're, you know, we're really looking at it in those terms to make sure that we're doing the work to train and provide tools and forums for engagement with our members to better understand those issues.

There's a growing push for digitization in real estate transactions. Where do you see the title industry leading and where do we need to catch up? So, you know, if you look at, I'll go back to COVID, right? Remember what happened in COVID when we were innovating both digitally and, you know, sort of in the paper world. And I say that not tongue in cheek, right?

Innovation is not just about technology and not just about putting some new tools in place. It's really about being creative and how are you creative in a moment that solves a problem? And so I think when we were closing transactions out in parking lots or through windows and doing those things that essentially kept the real estate economy and the broader American economy strong, that was the title insurance industry and settlement services providers doing that. We should be really proud of that. We also led in that time where we were taking things like digital closings to the next level.

We had only had a handful of states that did remote online notarization at the time COVID hit. We're now almost nationwide at 50 states. You know, it's 44, 45 states at this point and that was due to the leadership of the industry. So that's really exciting and we're going to continue to press forward on that. But I think we're also going to, you know, lean into these conversations about AI and leaning into these conversations about new ways to do business, but never, never sacrificing this proposition, which is the role of the professional and their expertise and the importance of that insurance coverage and the comprehensive nature of that.

There's, you know, I think we have to be careful not to get distracted by the shining object, right? Whether it's, you know, some new product that purports to do everything title insurance does or some new technology that, you know, is all of a sudden going to solve all these problems. I think we have to be curious, but we also have to be cautious to make sure that we don't bring new risks as a result. As you know, small and mid-sized agencies often feel that. There's, you know, I think we have to be careful not to get distracted by the shining object, right?

Whether it's, you know, some new product that purports to do everything title insurance does, or some new technology that, you know, is all of a sudden going to solve all these problems. I think we have to be curious, but we also have to be cautious to make sure that we don't bring new risks as a result. As you know, small and midsize title agencies often feel underrepresented or overwhelmed by new compliance burdens. How do you think Alta should support us agents moving forward? Yeah.

So again, I mean, the industry writ large is 90 plus percent small businesses, right? So we take, we take, that's who we represent. We take that very seriously. And we're always looking for ways to make sure that we're not leaving out that voice one and, or, or the tools needed by that segment of the marketplace because it is the overwhelming segment. And so, you know, making sure that we're providing like these FinCEN bootcamps, virtual options where people can plug in for, you know, a very modest price to receive the benefits of all the things that the large underwriters are receiving or the large agents, you know, making sure that we're putting our events in places around the country, particularly the Alta Edge conference where, you know, smaller agencies and their professionals are able to attend and come for, you know, reasonable, reasonable costs.

You know, we're looking at all sorts of options in that, in that realm. And we're also open to suggestions. I mean, one of the things that I'm take really seriously in this new role for myself is I want to hear from our members. What's working well at Alta? What can get better?

How can we help you? We are in a service business just like you are as a member. And we want to make sure that we're providing the highest and best service to our members every day. We take that, you know, tremendously serious. What's the latest, and if you don't mind shifting to an attorney opinion letter, do you mind kind of sharing with the teleagents where do we stand and what's the latest?

And it's been back and forth, push and pull. Well, here's what I'll say. I'll start with some, you know, sort of referencing back to what I said earlier about never sacrificing the thing that works, right? We know title insurance has been around for many, many decades, right? And the reason that title insurance came into being is because things called attorney opinion letters were not robust enough in the protection.

They protect against certain risks, but not all risks. They do a search of the, you know, there's a search of the public records, title insurance and title professionals go beyond that to make sure we're looking for off-record risk. We did an analysis that showed that, you know, 30% of all claims are, you know, in the bucket of off-record claims. And those are things that title insurance covers, including fraud and forgery, which an average claim is $143,000 a year, which would put someone out of their home. So let's start again back to my how do we do advocacy facts?

Let's start with the facts. AOLs don't protect against many of those risks, including that big bucket of fraud and forgery, which is growing. I think we have spent a lot of time educating, particularly at the state level, state policymakers, where, you know, obviously title insurance is regulated to say, you need to look at these products. At a minimum, there needs to be, if someone is claiming to be protecting against the same risks as title insurance, you should be regulated in the same exact way. Same rules of the road, fairness across the board.

At the same time, we're pointing out where the gaps are. And I think you've seen what certain regulators, state of Utah being one of them, you know, started to take actions to enforce the standards in place around title insurance, and, and showing that, you know, alternatives that are not fully regulated in the same way that coverage gaps, you know, shouldn't be, shouldn't be marketed and sold in the way that title insurance is. So I think we're making progress. There's more to come. But I think the other thing is education, both for the consumers and the lenders, and we're doing a lot of that to make sure they understand what the risks are that they would enter into if they took on one of these alternative products.

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Safi virtual expert support tailored for title professionals. How can we support you or support Alta as title agents in this effort? Yeah, I think, look, I think there's a number of ways that I appreciate, I really appreciate the question because the way that the industry and and Alta gets stronger is by better and more engagement amongst the industry. And I think it's engagement in the organization, you know, and in the suite of benefits we offer, but on the advocacy front, in particular, you know, being involved in our title action network so that you can sign up for that on our website, we have, you know, the ability to do that. If you go to the TAN, the TAN link on our website, you can be a TAN member, that allows you to get alerts.

So you can advocate and send messages to your policymakers at the state and federal level. I think coming to our advocacy summit, usually in the spring, May, May, May timeframe in Washington, and having your voice heard on Capitol Hill. I think, you know, for those of you who are TAN members and get involved, we have a political action committee. And we hope that you evolve your engagement into providing resources so that we can support policymakers who understand and support the title insurance industry. Does having Bill Pulte at FHFA, somebody from the industry, from the builder industry, does that help, like our advocacy overall, or does that hurt?

We look forward and have, you know, collaborated with FHFA and the director. You know, we continue to look for ways and opportunities for us to find places where we can build solutions around some of the challenges at play in the housing space around issues of affordability and those kinds of things. So we're really, you know, we're really excited about those opportunities. And, you know, look forward in the in the future, for us to be able to continue to to collaborate there, both with FHFA, and with policymakers on Capitol Hill, you know, and the state level, which we've done, I think, effectively, and our members have really deep relationships there. Let's shift gears and talk about vision, growth and what's ahead for Alta.

What does success look like for Alta under your leadership over the next three to five years? What's your vision and future for the title industry? Yeah, I think, look, as we think about the future, I think there's there's a few buckets, I think where we can look at those buckets and define what success looks like. I think the first is really, do policymakers and regulators more clearly understand and appreciate the value of our industry? If that if the answer to that is yes, as we go forward into the future, then we're doing our job, or we're doing it well and effectively.

And they're, you know, making policy choices based on that information and those trusted relationships that we've built. So I think that's one big bucket. I think, you know, the other one is how do our members feel about the resources, the tools, the opportunities they have, when they engage with Alta to make sure that they're learning, that they are growing, and that their team is supported to build their business. If we're able to do that, which I think we do really well, then success in that bucket. And I think the third one, and I think this is one, we all really do need to lean in even more, which is, how do we embrace innovation, continue to embrace innovation, which I think this industry has done, you know, more than people give it credit for, and I'll talk about that.

But, you know, embracing and leaning into innovation in a way that, again, elevates the professional and their time and attention on the most important tasks, makes their operation more efficient. The third one, and I think this is one we all really do need to lean in even more, which is how do we embrace innovation, continue to embrace innovation, which I think this industry has done more than people give it credit for, and I'll talk about that. But embracing and leaning into innovation in a way that, again, elevates the professional and their time and attention on the most important tasks, makes their operation more efficient, but doesn't increase the risk associated with the transaction. I think we've done that with, as I said, things like remote online notarization. We've done it as an industry in developing title decision engines that speed up the search and get us to the point of clearing title more quickly and effectively.

And we're looking, obviously, now at the world of AI with more opportunity there. So I think if we can look at those three areas and say we've done a good job and we're moving forward, then I think we're successful. Do you, what do you see AI having the biggest impact like in our industry? I know it's still an early base, early stages of first, second base right now, and there's so much noise, and just more personally, what do you see it or? Yeah, there is a lot.

This goes back to my comment earlier. There is a lot of noise. There's a lot of, as with any technology, right, or change, there's always gonna be people who say they've got the solution and they figured it all out. I think we have to be appropriately cautious and skeptical, but also want to be curious to learn and lean in and find out more. So I'm spending time talking to a lot of folks, vendors in the industry, learning more about tools they're developing so that we can pick the right and find the right, I should say, partners to bring into some conversations around this.

I think it's important to be more efficient, to reduce redundancies and sort of menial, orious tasks and those kinds of things. I think the industry has done a good job. That's where this technology is being sort of deployed most effectively now, that repetitive task orientation. But whether it will be in the near term or even the intermediate terms, sort of the be all end all, I think remains to be seen. But we wanna have that discussion and we wanna sort of figure out more opportunities to find that path forward.

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How do you plan to strengthen Alta's engagement with title agents on the ground, especially those outside the major metro markets? Yeah, I mean, again, I think, Mo, this is really something where we wanna make sure our offerings, our webinars, our boot camps, all the virtual learning that we do is accessible and available and informed by those smaller operations. So we need feedback, we need input on that. And so we seek that constantly. You know, I think, again, we're gonna try to get out and go to those places more often.

Certainly that's one of the goals that I have as I'm traveling around the country is to be out more with our members and find opportunities to connect. So that will be a big part of this. And I think also it's about showcasing what our members are doing and telling that story and having them help us tell that story. So one of the most exciting things, you know, is the Alta Good Deeds Foundation, right? It's something that stemmed from COVID when so many people were doing so many good things in their communities, because that, again, the values of this industry, that's the nature of who we are.

And so we decided there's so much of this, we need to turn it into something tangible and long lasting. And that was the genesis of the Good Deeds Foundation. We've now given $1.3 million out in grants nationwide. Almost every state in the country, nonprofit organizations that are doing remarkable work, a lot in the housing space. And that story and elevating that story of those small title agencies and the heroic sort of efforts that they do outside of their business is really fantastic.

What's one action title agents can take right now to align with where the industry is heading? Yeah, I think I would say investing in training and technology to make sure you're on the cutting edge as much as you can be on fraud prevention and detection. That's a big piece of it. And I think the other thing that sort of goes hand in glove with this is making sure you're plugging into the FinCEN rule that's coming and availing yourself of our resources coming to that bootcamp September 16th and 17th, if you haven't registered already. I think just being prepared and making sure you're informed by the information that we're putting out at Alta will help you be better in your business every day.

We're getting very close to the end here. I always end the show with a couple of personal questions. Do you have a favorite quote? So I am from Chicago, for those of- Love Chicago. So I'm a Chicago native, I'm a huge Cubs fan.

And I will say, I've got a few good quotes from the guy who broke the curse, Joe Matt. So he said some great things. I love that guy. And I had a chance to meet him on a couple of occasions. But one of the things he says is do simple best and better.

I think if we focus on doing the things that we're good at in a way that gets better and almost to the point where we're the best at it, that's critical. I think embracing the target, right? What's in front of us, how do we embrace even the things that make us fearful, really doing that. And then never letting the pressure exceed the pleasure. And I think if you're not excited about what you do, you should be doing something else.

How about a favorite book or one you read recently? Yeah, so the one I come back to, and this is an old book and one that's important to me as I grew up and was given to me by my dad is maybe one that not many people have heard of. And it's not really one of these leadership journey books. It's more of a philosophical exploration. Jonathan Livingston Segal.

I don't know if you've ever heard of it or read it, but it's this interesting story of a seagull. And he explored it sort of through his own voice. He explores the challenge of flying higher and farther and into sort of the atmosphere and how exhilarating that is and how he can teach other seagulls to get to that place and feel that feeling and fully embrace who they are. And he goes through this process and he fails and he gets hurt and he does all these things, but it's resilience, it's persistence. It's all about chasing that dream and realizing that you can do it.

And then when you do it and when you reach a place, you teach it and you share it and you make sure that it's there for the common good. And I think that's, to me, that was just, it's been very impactful for my dad. He sort of gave it to me and didn't explain it and then I didn't really understand what the hell it meant. But as I've reflected over the years, it came back. That's definitely a new one.

Typically, like a guest mentioned a book, I've at least heard of it, if not read it already, but it's definitely gonna add it to my next to read. Yeah, you should. Chris, do you have any final words to our audience of title agents? Look, first of all, thank you, Mo, and thank you for what you do and your leadership in doing this podcast and spreading the word and sort of the gospel of title. I think that's wonderful.

We need more people to continue to do that. Look, I would say I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be a part of this industry. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be with a team of professionals that we have at Ulta and with the membership that we have. We need your feedback. We need your advice and your input, your thought leadership and engagement.

And I would just encourage members of the industry who are not part of Ulta to become part of it, make it better, continue to help us grow it. I think together we are stronger than we are standing alone always. And so what I would say is thank you to those who are engaged and welcome those who aren't to become more engaged. Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you.

And that's a wrap on today's journey with Mo Shumil from the Title Agents podcast, reminding you that mastering the. industry who are not part of Alta to become part of it, make it better, continue to help us grow it. I think together we are stronger than we are, you know, standing alone always. And so what I would say is thank you to those who are engaged and welcome those who aren't to become more engaged. Thank you so much, Chris.

Thank you. And that's a wrap on today's journey with Mo Shamil from the Title Agents podcast, reminding you that mastering the art of innovation is key in the title industry's fast-paced world. If you're finding it tough to keep up with the changes and challenges, remember you're not alone. Our calendar is open for you. Find the link in the show notes and let's connect.

Make sure to hit subscribe to not miss out on strategies that elevate and insights that empower. Together, we'll navigate the future of the industry. I look forward to our next meeting in the upcoming episode.