Real Estate Investing in 2025: Multi-Family, Flips & Market Pivots | Title Agents Podcast Ep56

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Shamil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Ignite Monday. I'm really excited to have you join us today for the insightful and timely webinar.

It will be on unlocking the secrets to smart real estate investing and navigating today's market with confidence. I know it's a tad bit wacky right now. And so we're all we're all looking for new ways to garner new business and generate more income in our real estate professions. So whether you're a seasoned investor or just beginning to explore the possibilities in real estate, you're in the right place today during this webinar. Today's conversation is all about giving you the tools, insights and confidence you need to make strategic decisions in today's dynamic market straight from the professionals who've done exactly that.

We're joined by three powerhouse panelists, real estate investors who have not only navigated market shifts, but turn those moments into real success stories. So first we have Ryan Meltzer. Ryan Meltzer is a seasoned real estate professional with over 25 years of experience in investment and residential markets across Southern California. He's currently serving as the CEO of Investment Network and is the partner and director of the Investment Network at Corcoran Global Living. Next we welcome Greg Goldman.

Greg Goldman is an accomplished real estate professional based in Waukesha. Am I saying that correctly, Greg? Yeah, Waukesha and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Okay, Wisconsin bringing again over 25 years of experience in both residential and commercial markets. He's licensed in Wisconsin as a real estate broker and also a certified public accountant CPA.

Greg uniquely combines deep financial insight and hands-on property expertise. And joining us as well is Christina Nobers based in the greater Pittsburgh area, Pennsylvania. Christina formerly known as Tina brings over two decades of real estate experience as the team leader and real estate advisor at Janice Realty Advisors. She specializes in guiding both homeowner and investor clients through residential and commercial transactions with a sharp focus on value growth and portfolio strategy. So we're incredibly fortunate to have this caliber of experience with us today.

Each of our panelists have walked the walk and they're here to share what's worked, what hasn't and how you can position yourself for smart, sustainable growth. We'll start with a guided discussion and then we'll open it up for questions and answers. So please feel free to drop your questions in the chat as we go. Okay, so let's get started and we'll unlock some of those secrets to smart real estate investing. Okay, so I actually, you know, I kind of went through a quick introduction, but if you could share maybe something personal, or if you want to kind of chime in with a little bit of your background, I would always like to, you know, let the audience kind of see who you are as a human being.

And so Ryan, we'll start with you if you want to just give us a little snapshot of your experience and kind of who you are. Absolutely. Can you hear me okay? We can. Well, thank you for having me on here.

I appreciate it. Yeah. So I have been a real estate broker for close to 30 years and I absolutely love what I do. I've been an investor. I've been a project manager.

Yeah. Somehow I got muted there. Where did I lose you? You were a project manager. You were saying how old you were, Ryan.

Thank you, Michael. I've been a project manager and a money manager, and I've turned all of that into now running the largest real estate investment network in the U.S. We are in Southern California. We do business all through California and many, many other states. We're running hundreds of transactions every month, and we absolutely love what we do.

We are an advocate for realtors and homeowners. We have a database of hundreds of thousands of investors, and our goal is to help homeowners and realtors in tough situations when homeowners and realtors are looking for a cash offer or a more convenient offer. You hear more and more about off-market projects. A lot of that people will come to us because we've got a great off-market database of investors to help you find investment opportunities and help homeowners in need. Awesome.

Thank you, Ryan. What do you like to do in your free time? What do I like to do in my free time? I like to surf, and when it's a little bit cooler here in SoCal, I like to snowboard. But I'm getting up there in years, and both of those things are getting tougher.

I understand that. Greg, would you give us a little insight about you, who you are, and even a personal thing you want to share with us on that? Unlike Ryan, my practice is way more focused. I'm a member of a team of six agents. We are full-time brokers and agents.

We practice in all of southeastern Wisconsin. Our population here is about 2 million people, which includes the city of Milwaukee, the city of Waukesha, Racine, and Kenosha counties. We're right over the border from Chicagoland. So our focus is dealing with landlords and investors. I've been with REMAX a total of about 22 years, and prior to that, I practiced as a CPA.

But during my time practicing as a CPA, I started buying small properties. I started out small with duplexes and eventually got to the point where I was managing a number of doors. Then my accounting job moved to Texas, and I didn't. So I went full-time about 22 years ago into real estate. So it was a very different world than coming out of Ernst & Young and then being a corporate CFO.

However, looking back, I wish it had happened to me long before. One of the things we'll talk about later, I assume, is the fact that when I was coming up in real estate, the mentoring programs that at least we have here didn't exist, and I wish they had because that would have helped me avoid a lot of mistakes in my own investing. But through the College of Hard Knocks, I have worked with investors buying and selling. My team and I close at least one or two properties a week, almost all investment properties. So over my 20 years with real estate, I've probably been involved in, in one way or another, over 1,000 transactions.

Wow. That is incredible. And do you have anything personal you'd like to share with us? What do you like to do in your free time? I'll say hi to my grandkids, even though I know they're not watching.

So that's how we spend our time. That's great. All right. And then moving on with Tina, if you can share a little bit about yourself and your experience and successes. So coming to you from Pittsburgh, which is a very, very hot investment network.

I got into real estate 20 years ago because I wanted to be an investor. At the time, I was in my early 20s, lived in a small town an hour north of Pittsburgh. So my investment aspirations really didn't start coming to fruition until about seven years ago. I've always worked with investors, helped them, guided them throughout the process. But me personally, I finally got my opportunity and really just kind of stepped out of that fear of taking the step into buying my first rental property about seven years ago.

Right now I have 18 doors and I have a flip under contract that's closing August 1st. Another one that just hit the market and I'm closing on another flip on August 1st to begin that project. So I kind of personally kind of hit it all as far as investment strategies, whether it's BRRR or fix and flip. So it's something that I really enjoy. And sometimes I go from a professional closing to walking through a deplorable house.

So it can get really, really interesting and kind of seen it all through a lot of the market shifts with COVID being one of the largest that we all have to navigate. For sure. And then is there anything you'd like to share with the audience personally? strategies, whether it's burr or fix and flip. So it's something that I really enjoy.

And sometimes I go from a professional closing to walking through a deplorable house. So it can get really, really interesting and kind of seen it all through a lot of the market shifts with COVID being one of the largest that we all have to navigate. For sure. And then is there anything you'd like to share with the audience? Personally, what you like to do in your free time or free time, busy and realistic.

When I don't have my boys, I have two boys that are 12 and going to be nine. I do like to get out and try and get in a round of golf. I'm kind of decent. I do enjoy it. But then with the boys, we do like to travel.

So if it's even if it's just a road trip or international, we do like to get away and see as many things as we can. Then get them to golf, Christina. Get them to golf, you don't feel guilty. I didn't start golfing until about I want to say like maybe 10 years ago. But as a child, my dad always wanted me to golf.

And now I kick myself like, oh, I should have. So I should have listened to him and started golfing when I was younger. But yeah, I picked it up a little later in life. But I do enjoy it. This podcast is brought to you by Struggling to set appointments and generate leads.

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Visit Alltechnationaltitle.com or DM us today to start the conversation. It's a great sport, constantly working on your form and yourself while you're out there. OK, so we're going to. Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to go ahead and move into our our moderating questions for you guys to share your experiences and successes with real estate investing.

And so I'm going to just kind of round robin these questions with you all. And so, Brian, we'll go ahead and start with you. So what first drew you to real estate investing and what kept you committed through the ups and downs? Money. Oh, you wanted more than that.

Yeah, no, obviously, obviously spending many years in sales, there really is no better direction you can go as far as sales. If you're going to get into sales, real estate is the place to be. So that's what originally drew me into it. I go I come from four generations of salesmen and never wanted to be in sales and look where I am now. I actually think that I think that I learned really early on that that real estate sales is more customer service than it is sales.

It's really more about caring for people. And the better you care for people, the better you'll do. Period. Hard stop. But what I enjoyed about real estate investing was, I mean, first and foremost, the idea of being able to help neighborhoods grow and gentrify in and do better to be able to build value in specific areas, to take the worst house on the street and make it the best house on the street and the way that helped my fellow realtors and homeowners by adding value to the neighborhood.

There's nothing like walking up to the worst house you ever saw and seeing the neighbors look at you like you're going to are you going to buy this? And are you going to make it? Are you going to help us all? And then you help them all. And six months later, you're selling that house for more than you sold any house in the neighborhood.

And then you're you're talking to the neighbors about the value of their home and able to build more real estate opportunities for them and yourself and other realtors in the area. So I think that if you're focused correctly, it can be a really good thing. For everyone. That is so very true, Ryan, oh, my goodness, because you are you're adding value to the neighborhood and to other homeowners in the area, and it also gives you an opportunity to possibly invest more and fix up the neighborhoods, and so that's great. Thank you for sharing that.

And then, Craig or Greg, I will go ahead and ask you this. What does your your current portfolio look like? Residential, multifamily, commercial, short term rentals. Most of what I'm involved with is apartment buildings and multifamilies. In other words, I personally own a two family.

I'm a partner in a 12 and a 16 unit. We generally do not do any third party management, so I just I manage these. The units that I currently own, I started out buying duplexes because it was bite sized, it was something I could get financing on. I did that while I was still practicing accounting. I thought I need to diversify my income.

I need another future income stream. And when I left accounting, I went full time because I stayed in Wisconsin, my job left, went full time into real estate and I kind of stuck with multifamilies because in my accounting experience, I had audited banks and savings associations. And a number of my clients had made a substantial amount of money in real estate. And I thought to myself, oh, I can do that. And it worked.

It's one of the few things where you have freedom. You have freedom to fail miserably. You also have freedom to kick yourself from the behind and do something. I had no idea what going full time in real estate was like until I was kind of forced into it. And it took a while.

It was a leap of faith because during those first couple of months, when I was working as a commissioned salesman at REMAX, I had no income. I was very lucky. My wife had health insurance. So but looking back, I wish I had started in my 20s, you know, rather than in my 30s and 40s, because the opportunity was there. You get to be very creative.

You have to pivot frequently. You have to look at all sides of a transaction, all sides of an opportunity and temper that with with your knowledge of what you can and can't handle so you're really left to your own wits. And like I said, you can be successful or you can fail. I have failed a couple of times, but very grateful to have found this as a career. Yeah, you're always failing forward.

That's right. Yeah, right. That's the goal. Thank you, Greg. OK, and then, Tina, I'll ask you this.

This is we're kind of going to move into the market outlook and the mindset on investing in the current market. So, Tina, given the market shifts in this past year, rising interest rates, inflation, inventory fluctuations, how are you personally navigating today's investment market? With all the changes, it has been pretty challenging. We've seen. A lot of investors, including myself, kind of pull back from the Burr method, which is the buy and hold the long term rental type strategy just because of the interest rates, it's just properties aren't cash flowing the way that you need them to be for a long time, long term success.

A lot of people see real estate as a retirement strategy. That's one of my retirement strategies as well. So for me, I pivoted from holds to flips over the course of the past year to see how the economy is going to shake itself out after the election. If interest rates really are going to come down, which direction we can go. The flips do have their own challenges as well, though, with the rise in material, the rise in the cost of labor, it's really, really important to be constantly evaluating your numbers, evaluating your cost to see if you can make a property work before you even sign that contract to purchase it.

Once you sign that contract, you're kind of stuck. And if you were off on your numbers, you're either you're going to lose somehow, you're going to lose when you go to sell it or you're going to lose your hand money because you're backing out for no reason. So it's definitely important to always, always evaluate every single property, no matter what you think. You know, in this current market, you don't know. You really do have to dial into your numbers every single time.

And would you would you recommend flips over holds? It really depends on what industry, which market you're in and how much room you have on that. because you're backing out for no reason. So it's definitely important to always, always evaluate every single property. No matter what you think you know in this current market, you don't know.

You really do have to dial into your numbers every single time. And would you recommend flips over holds? It really depends on what industry, which market you're in, and how much room you have on that. For a lot of people doing the Burr method, refinancing out that cash, tax-free money. Greg, you can probably speak to that, the tax-free money when you do a refi that you're pulling out of your properties.

If you have the spread and your increase in interest rate is covering your cash flow, then absolutely. You absolutely can still do buy-in holds in this market. It just really comes down to the numbers and what your long-term goal is. You have worked so hard to build your business. So why do 70 to 80 percent of businesses never sell?

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Greg or Ryan, do you have any other insights or perspectives specifically on doing holds versus flips in this given market? Well, I can speak a little bit to that. I agree with Tina. You have to look at it property by property. If a given project makes sense and you can afford to hold it, you hold it.

But as I said earlier, and as Tina said, you have to be able to pivot all the time. In other words, you can't fall in love with the property. You have to be able to make the decision. And this has always been hard for me. I fall in love with properties and it might be time to get rid of one and I miss the boat.

I miss the pricing. So you have to be on your toes. You have to be open to opportunities. And if you can buy and hold, you buy and hold. The next one, you might have to flip.

The next one, you might have to wholesale. And that's part of being on your toes in this business. You have to learn as much as you can and pay attention. I definitely agree with the idea of don't make an emotional decision. 100%.

Don't make an emotional decision. You may want to own a property on the beach, but you're probably smarter buying a property in the desert because the property on the beach is probably not going to cashflow or you're going to have to put 60% down to make it make sense. So you might be passionate about one direction, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best move for your portfolio. Yeah, that is great advice. Thank you all very much for sharing.

Okay. So Ryan, we're going to come back to you. So what mind shift, as we're just kind of talking about, or principles have helped you stay confident and adaptable in the current investing climate? I think really understanding that real estate investing at its core really is, it's gambling to a great extent, right? Let's call it what it is.

If you've been in the business or been investing as long as I have, you've seen a lot of ups and downs in the market. You've seen a lot of opportunities. I'll tell you candidly, I owned 36 doors in 2007 and I owned three in 2009. And I didn't sell any of them. I lost all of them.

And it was because a lot of it was because I was overextended. I was a rookie. I didn't know what I was doing. I was following a pattern of buy, refinance, leverage, leverage, leverage. And a lot of people will do that.

A lot of people will be ultra aggressive. And just remember, the market goes up and down. The opportunities are not always going to be perfect forever. My suggestion is to be conservative. My suggestion is to do your due diligence and investigate, go as far as you feel like you need to.

And if you're buying as a cash investor, you're going to have a lot of pressure on you telling you that you've got to make your move. You've got to get that inspection contingency removed. You've got to close as quickly as possible. You've got to, you've got to move, move, move, move, move. And if you feel like the pressure is too great, no matter how big the opportunity is, make the wise decision, be conservative because it is really easy to get burned.

And when you get burned in this business, it can be catastrophic. So my suggestion is always to be conservative and do your due diligence. Thank you. That is so very true. Thank you for sharing that.

Okay. All right. So, Craig, are there any trends? And you all can speak to this, but we'll start with you, Craig. Are there any trends or opportunities you think investors are currently overlooking?

Here in Southeast Wisconsin, I think people get a predisposition about neighborhoods. Because it's not that dynamic here, but we do have gradual changes. So I personally think that there are some areas around the Milwaukee market that are being overlooked. You know, it's probably like that in any larger, older city. So that's a trend that I think people could start looking at is communities near to the city that are overlooked.

The other thing that we are seeing here is because our prices are not crazy compared to the coast, for instance, or even Chicago. We have a constant influx of out-of-state investors looking at our properties here because they can still get a better cash flow. Doing a real estate transaction in Wisconsin happens to be, from what I understand, one of the easiest states in the union to do it and one of the least expensive. So, as an agent, I'm fortunate that we deal with both local and out-of-state investors. So in that respect, the opportunity we're seeing here is money flowing into Wisconsin from other parts of the country.

We're also boringly stable here. We historically have not had the wild up-and-down swings of value here. So that gives some comfort to being a landlord. The other thing we're seeing here, again, is workforce housing is in such demand here where you can get a reasonable rent. A reasonable rent here for a two-bedroom in a decent area could be anywhere from $1,100 to $1,500.

That's not going to be an A-class building. It's not going to be gorgeous. It's not going to have a swimming pool or a club. But we're seeing that the workforce housing here is in such high demand. We have buyers, again, coming in from out-of-state trying to do that.

So those are areas where we're seeing here a lot of activity. And I tell anyone who will listen to me that if you own workforce housing, if you own modestly priced class B and C buildings that are in good shape, they should never, ever be empty. And if they're empty, it's your fault. It's not the market's fault. Touche.

Tina, do you have anything to add to that as far as trends and opportunities that investors are probably overlooking? It's a little bit more nuanced. It's a little bit lengthier. But with all of the forbearances that were happening in the mortgage industry, short sales and pre-foreclosures are often overlooked because it is a lot of work. It's a lot of legwork to get to that representative at the bank.

It's a lot of waiting because the bank has to approve everything. A lot of times it can be a six to seven month closing, but we are seeing more opportunity in that pre-foreclosure and the short sale areas. So in tight markets where deals are hard to come by, if you're a little patient and you're willing to do a little bit of due diligence or connected to an agent that has that connection with a short sale coordinator, we, not in-house, but we do partner with somebody that handles a lot of our short sale work for us, does a lot of that legwork coordinating with the bank. So it takes some of that work off of us. It can be a lucrative way to find some opportunities that other investors are overlooking.

And Ryan, how about you as far as trends where investors are probably overlooking? has a connection with a short sale coordinator. We, not in-house, but we do partner with somebody that handles a lot of our short sale work for us, does a lot of that legwork coordinating with the bank. So it takes some of that work off of us. It can be a lucrative way to find some opportunities that other investors are overlooking.

And Ryan, how about you, as far as trends where investors are probably overlooking? And it probably depends on the market, you know, of course. Yeah, it really, we, so we, so I'm, yeah, again, I'm in California, but we work all over the place. And it really is, it really is so very different. And Greg and Tina just really proved that.

Their two markets, which we work in as well, are tremendously different. I would say, because, you know, my business has been, it's been almost solely built on networking, that that's really important. Showing up to stuff like this is great, especially now that, you know, I don't have to drive for an hour and a half to go to a great meeting or a great seminar. I can do it right from my office like this. I would say network, get involved.

LinkedIn and Facebook are great places where you can connect with groups. You know, Alltech has always set us up with great opportunities to meet great people. I really think that it's about networking and you hear about opportunities and directions. I mean, just as Tina's talking, and Tina and I know each other, I just wrote down a note about short sales. And I thought, wow, I'd love to learn more about what you guys are doing in short sales, because it's something you don't see in a lot of markets anymore.

So, and then I texted Tina and I said, Tina, let's talk more about this. And to me, that's how you network. Let's talk more and let's, Tina and I, let's do some more deals. That's where it's at. Yeah, networking for sure.

Yep, so we're actually gonna move into tools, strategies and systems that are beneficial for growth in investing. And so Ryan, we're gonna round Robin back to you. So what tools, apps or systems have been most instrumental in helping you analyze deals, manage properties and stay organized? Yeah, I love that. Well, I love that in the sense that I'm, I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I'm pretty old school with the way that I do things.

I love a great CRM. You guys connected us with Go High Level this year and it's been fantastic. So I highly suggest if y'all aren't checking out Go High Level, it's a great CRM for what we do. But also for me, it really comes down to working the market, working the tools that we've had for a very long time, doing great CMAs, really digging into values on properties. I think that to me, really our two greatest tools are our CRM and the MLS.

Those really are my two greatest tools. Everything else kind of comes after all of that. So understanding not only how to run a CMA, I know that sounds like something every realtor knows how to do, but I'll tell you as someone who analyzes properties from realtors all over the nation and sends us, they send us properties by the dozens every single day, the average realtor does not know how to run a CMA conservatively and wisely. The average realtor knows how to run a CMA so that they can get the most for their clients when they're trying to sell their properties. But when you're looking at it from an investor's point of view, you want to be ultra conservative.

You don't want to be puffing at all. You want to make sure you have solid comps and that those solid comps are backed up by solid comps. To me, that is the foundation of conservative investing. Yeah, I think conservative is the key word there. So if everybody can just take that on their notes, that would be beneficial, stay conservative.

And so, Greg, I'm gonna go on with our next question. Have your investment strategies changed recently due to the market conditions? And if so, how? Well, I can't really talk about myself, but I can say that the investors that I and my team work with, yeah, we've seen an influx of people profit-taking by selling their properties than using 1031 money to be paying cash. So that has, I think it's accelerated recently, even though we have seen prices plateau in our market.

The other thing is we've seen that the local banks here seem to be way more aggressive courting real estate investors than they were just a year or two ago. So that's allowing some of our investors to get money a little cheaper. And we have a whole subculture of hard money lenders here who are allowing people to start out and do a fix and flip. That's new here, that we have this large subculture of hard money that some of it is very competitive. As I said, it's a matter of just networking, networking, networking.

I belong to two local organizations, the Rental Property Association of Southeast Wisconsin, and I belong to the Milwaukee REIA. And as I had hinted before, these are our mentoring and networking groups that didn't exist when I started in real estate. Certainly the internet didn't exist to what it is today when I started in real estate. So getting help from others and even sitting down at an event like this where you can talk and share things. I wish I had had those things to help me learn and learn from other people's mistakes.

Plus it allows people today to pivot faster. It allows you to find out, oh, interest rates might change next week. How does that impact my decision? So yeah, it's just a matter of everything that Brian said, plus I can't overemphasize the networking and keeping your ear to the ground so you know what's happening. That's right.

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I will ask you, how do you assess and manage risks when you're considering a deal in today's climate? It goes back to that numbers, numbers, numbers. Similar to Ryan, which I will second go high level. Let me just circle back to that. For anybody who wants to save some time if you're going to implement and invest in a CRM, we have gone through about three and we started implementing go high level about three months ago and it's incredible.

Just the AI, the ringless voicemail, the email automation, it is a fantastic product and I wish we would have came across that a little bit sooner. So hands down go high level, a huge recommendation from me. But I am very manual. I let my more technical team members handle all of that setup and automation. But I literally still in pen and paper when I analyze a deal, I can walk through a property and have a ballpark when I leave.

Hey, this is a 50K renovation. This is a 60K renovation. But I still go back to that pen and paper and break it down by, okay, we need three ceiling fans. We have 15,000, 1,500 square feet of paint that we need. 15 sheets of drywall.

I get very granular because the market is so tight and we're fortunate here in Pittsburgh that we're kind of flat. We don't get those big highs and lows like Florida, Texas, California, even Arizona gets. So for flips, it's a little more predictable. But again, just getting granular and I am still very much a pen and paper type person to just, I just feel more comfortable that if I'm writing it down, I know my numbers are solid. And so just find a method that works for you and stick with it.

There are all kinds of spreadsheets and calculators and things like that. Even with chat GPT now, you can have chat GPT make you anything. So whatever works for you to make sure that your numbers are on point are the biggest recommendation that I can make in these changing markets. Yeah, to grow and be profitable for sure. Yeah.

Tina, if I could make one comment regarding what Tina just said, getting granular and doing it yourself is critical because you cannot believe anything that you get from the other seller. You can't believe anything you get, especially in a multifamily. You have to look at it. And what we do is we'll try to look at their PMI. numbers are on point are the biggest, you know, the biggest recommendation that I can make in these changing markets.

Yeah, to grow and be profitable for sure. Yeah. Tina, if I could make one comment regarding what Tina just said, getting granular and doing it yourself is critical because you cannot believe anything that you get from the other seller. You can't believe anything you get, especially in a multifamily. You have to look at it.

And what we do is we'll try to look at their P&L. We'll try to look at their information line by line. And we'll see sometimes where the seller either deliberately or completely by accident forgets things. Oh yeah. Yeah, we do spend 15 or 20% on repairs and maintenance, but we're only showing 5%, you know, silly things like that.

So you have to know your market enough to see where the BS lies between the lines. Thank you. That's the truth. Thank you for sharing that. Great, great insight.

Ryan, we're gonna circle back with you. So can each, well, actually all of you, but we'll start with you, Ryan. Can you share a challenge or mistake you've faced in your investing journey and what you've learned from it? Mistake that I've made. You wanna circle back to me?

Okay, that's fine. Tina, would you like to share on that? This is a case of I was super excited about a three unit and there was a lot of other people that were super excited about this same three unit and it is still kicking me in the teeth. It's still kicking me in the teeth today. I hate this property.

It's just ongoing issue after ongoing issue. And it's just, I think now, it's just been sitting there vacant for about six months now costing me money, but I think I'm gonna just bite the bullet, put the money into it and then put it back on the market to sell it just because it's, once you put so much capex into something, it just doesn't make sense to hold it. I've been going back and forth what I wanna do with this property, but this one has definitely been the property that it was an emotional decision. Greg said, don't get emotional on a property and this was just such a hot property and everybody wanted it and I had the inside tracks. I thought, how could I go wrong?

And I sure went wrong on it. So I guess this goes back to the just, everything's a business transaction, no matter how hot it is, no matter how many people want it, the location, the price, always rely on your numbers to make sure you're not. Comes down to the dollars. Yep. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And then Greg, would you have anything to share on that? Yeah, I have a very hard problem giving up control. So it cost me quite a bit when I started getting more and more tenants of my own and I did not hire a manager fast enough and I did not get a property manager nor did I get a software program to manage the real estate and the rentals. So that ended up costing me vacancies because I just lost control of the number of doors that I had. And one of the cases I ended up selling the property, but then I learned that the best thing to do is to get help in a situation like that.

And I hate hiring managers because every manager I've ever used has differed in their performance. And one of the things I learned about using third-party managers is that in the very beginning, it's a honeymoon. They treat you like gold because you're a new client. And then as you get deeper into the relationship and the reality of changing tenants comes up, then you wonder, gosh, I have a vacancy, but they have three other vacancies on the other side of town. Where are they taking those leads?

And my tenants will say, oh, they're not fixing things as fast as you did, Greg. Well, yeah, because I was just one guy and I was crazy. So the point is when you're taking on multi-families and you're taking on multi-doors, you've got to get help. I learned that the hard way and it cost. Yes.

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Try www.titleGPT.ai today. Do you want me to circle back or would you like me to move on to our next? No, I absolutely echo what Greg said. I think when it comes to management, really the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Often I have investment properties on the other side of the United States and I feel like they know I'm in California and they're gonna help out the homeowner who's knocking on their door all the time and they're in their face.

And they've, so they've got, they're fully occupied and I'm 20% vacant. I think that that's really key. So I think that's about communicating with them as much as possible, letting them know that you can't be taken advantage of showing up on a whim. I think that's all really important. But I was also gonna say, I am also a control freak and we used to buy a lot of properties and bring in our contractors to walk the properties.

I think one of the biggest mistakes we made was we stopped hiring inspectors. I think it's really important to bring in inspectors early on. If you've got time to bring in a home inspector to go over those details. If you're doing a major renovation, you need to get the city involved. Do those things.

Don't take those shortcuts because you're passionate about it or because you've done another one in the neighborhood and you think this might be the same. Do your due diligence and inspect. Absolutely. The conversation has been so awesome and we've got a lot more to go through, but I wanna make sure with the remaining 10 plus minutes we have that we do mention the importance of investors working with real estate professionals that are actually experienced with investor properties. So there's a couple of questions related to that that I wanna make sure for the benefit of our audience that we do cover.

So just wanted to- For sure. Thank you for letting us know that. I appreciate that, Alex. So I'll go back to you, Tina, for that specifically moving on to that. So for newer investors, real estate professionals, what advice would you give someone who's just starting in real estate investing from going from residential to going into investing?

So for agents that wanna get started in either side of it, whether you wanna become an investor yourself or you want to be able to market yourself as the go-to real estate agent that is primarily for investors, it's really about learning. You don't have to know how to swing the hammer. You don't have to know how to hang drywall, but you at least need to be educated on some of the more general home renovation projects that go on so that if you're working with an out-of-state investor, you can say, hey, I can connect you with, and build connections too. So reliable contractors, plumbers, electricians, if you have somebody that wants to do buy-in holds, make sure you have a strong relationship with the property management company. We're all fortunate to be working with Altec, so we have a reliable title company that has our partner in our pocket.

Just build as many relationships as you can to be a true resource for your clients. The more information that you can provide them with, assist them with, the more they're going to be reliant on you and want to continue to work with you. So that's the most important thing as an agent is definitely not just sweet-talking your way through it, actually having some backbone to what you're speaking about so that they truly see you as somebody who is an expert in the field. That's great. Did you ever take any investor seminars, or did you have a colleague or cohort who maybe held your hand through the process of getting into investing?

I started out wanting to be an investor myself. So when I started working with investors, I kind of had a little bit of a general knowledge of home remodeling things, nothing too crazy, nothing foundational, anything like that. But as you start to build your clientele and you start going to the networking groups and building relationships, somebody had mentioned Facebook here in Pittsburgh, there's a lot of real estate investment groups where once you learn how to cut through the noise and have a self-promotion, things like that, you can find a lot of resources on there. So again, you don't have to know how to do everything step-by-step, do it yourself, but basically being able to... nothing foundational, anything like that.

But as you start to build your clientele and you start going to the networking groups and building relationships, somebody had mentioned Facebook here in Pittsburgh, there's a lot of real estate investment groups where once you learn how to cut through the noise and have a self-promotion, things like that, you can find a lot of resources on there. So again, you don't have to know how to do everything step-by-step, do it yourself, but basically being able to say, I got a guy for that. So if you're working, especially who's not in your specific market, because in Pittsburgh, we do get a lot of international and out-of-state investors. So being able to carry that conversation and if you have a property listed, make sure you can talk about it. Don't just be able to say, oh, well, you know, I might need 80K in renovation because then the investor's gonna say, well, what does it need?

How's the roof? How are the windows? How's the foundation? How old's the HVAC? So just make sure you know what you're talking about.

And if an investor asks you about a client that's not your listing, do your due diligence, get that information before you call that investor back so that you can speak intelligently about that property to them. Absolutely, thank you for sharing that. And so Greg, for those with few deals under their belt, maybe they've just had a few investments to get started in this field, what are the next best moves to scale intelligently in this market? Well, if you're going to be building your own portfolio, I would say find at least one or two agents in your market that are very familiar with investors, okay? You want to deal with somebody who has sold more than the 4,000 square foot home in the suburbs with a pool.

You want to be dealing with somebody who has been hopefully down in the trenches, maybe an investor themselves. And those are the kind of agents that I would recommend you hook up with in the beginning. If you're an agent yourself, find someone in your office to partner with who has this experience and can help you network with other investors. If you have a REIA, a Real Estate Investors Association in your community, join it. It's a lot of wannabes and rookies in that group, but there's also generally training available and networking available.

Because not only are you going to meet other investors, you're going to meet plumbers, you're going to meet contractors, you're going to meet lawyers, you're going to meet people who specialize in this industry. That's a pitch that we use at the Milwaukee REIA, is everybody in this room has experience in real estate. Talk to them, network with them. Again, these are not people who are just going to be selling you a condo on the river, okay? They're people who know how to look at the financial statements of a property.

They'll know the ins and outs. They might know the lenders locally, because the lenders will be attending these meetings as well. The lenders who understand commercial and understand investment properties. This is not the lender who's advertising on TV with, you know, go put in an online application. No, these are the guys in your backyard who can do it, especially if you're looking, obviously, at four or five units and above.

You need someone in your area who knows the market, who will get to know you, who will be one of your team members going forward, who just understands investment real estate. Thank you, Greg. That's great insight. And Ryan, it's important that investors work with real estate professionals that are experienced, as we've talked about quite a bit today, with investment properties. And from understanding the lingo to providing investment-specific guidance and risk mitigation, what is the best way for a real estate agent to get into the investment market, knowing that it does require to have the knowledge, to be intelligent, to manage risk mitigation, and also cash flow?

Yeah, absolutely. And also, when I kind of build on, I think this goes along with what Greg and what Tina were saying, and Greg brought up RIAs. I have been, for well over two decades, I've been going to anywhere from six to eight RIAs a month in my area, at least once or twice a week. I'm going to a different Real Estate Investors Association or networking meeting. And again, quite often we can do it online, but I really like the ones in person because you can spend time talking to people and meeting with people and maybe find a mentor and buy them a cup of coffee, because I really think that's where it's at.

If you want to get started, put your weight on someone else who knows what they're doing. And you might think, well, why is Sally going to want to help me? I'm just a newbie, but it's really easy. I'll give you the best tip I can give you. Offer them your investment opportunities.

Share your deals. Share what you're seeing. Because if you go and you meet with someone and you say, hey, I'd love to learn from you. I'm seeing deals and opportunities, and I'd love to split it with you. You're giving them opportunities or direction that they might not already have.

Give them an upside to working with you and they'll want to work with you. They'll want to help you. They'll see you. They see you as a tenacious, driven person that can maybe help them in their business. In the long run, they want to partner with you.

In the long run, you may end up going off on your own or you may end up building a relationship with this person that lasts a lifetime. But I think my key takeaway from this is find mentors. Find multiple mentors. Don't try and go it yourself. I know today's generation thinks that we can YouTube everything.

You can YouTube a lot. You can learn a lot from YouTube. I definitely suggest going on there and learning. But get with other humans that are doing this and having success and had failures. Buy them lunch.

Spend time with them. Work with mentors and network. My biggest takeaways from this meeting is networking, getting mentors, staying conservative in this market. Yes, and getting involved. You guys have mentioned Rhea.

That's a great networking group to learn a little bit more and possibly share business, kind of come alongside under the wing of somebody that is experienced. And so yeah, all of this is really great. Alex, we are coming up on time. Did you want me to ask one final question or should we see if there's any questions that we can answer briefly before we wrap up? I would love to hear from the audience to see if there's anything that we haven't covered from the panel.

So we're sort of monitoring the chat. So if there's any questions that anybody has, please type it into chat. I mentioned to those that joined early that this is all being recorded and we'll share the full video presentation to everybody. And we can always share with the, if the panelists agree to it, their email address so that anybody can ask questions directly as well. So let me see if there's any questions.

And then otherwise, Faith, we can probably wrap up since we're just about at time. Okay. I'll let you know if I see any questions, but it looks like so far everything's been answered. Okay, great. Yeah, so the only other thing that I wanted to say is thank you very much to our panelists today.

You've shared a great deal of insight and we're all very greatly appreciated for you guiding us and real estate professionals that are interested in getting into the investment world. And so, yeah, you guys have provided a ton of great feedback. And again, as Alex mentioned, we will be posting this up on YouTube and we'll provide some video shorts also on our website. We do host this webinar, Ignite Mondays, each Monday, the first, we were kind of, we moved this to the second week only because we had a holiday the first week of July. But moving forward, www.ignitemondays.com, you will see our upcoming webinars, topics and panelist speakers.

So please get on and pay attention to that. And we will follow up accordingly. If you have any other questions, we'll provide our email addresses or you'll see on the website, you can get ahold of us as well. Other than that, I thank you all for participating in today's webinar. And I hope we'll see you out there in the investment field.

Yeah. Great topic. Thank you so much to our speakers. A lot of really great insights. I know I learned a lot.

And Ria, I'm gonna go check out in my local market. Yeah. questions we'll provide our email addresses where you you'll see the on the website you can get a hold of us as well. Other than that I thank you all for participating in today's webinar and I hope we'll see you out there in the investment field. Yeah great topic thank you so much to our speakers a lot of really great insights I know I learned a lot and Ria I'm gonna go check out in my local market.

Yeah it's it's a great investment network. All right thank you everybody. Yes thank you all very much. And that's a wrap on today's journey with Mo Shamil from the Title Agents podcast reminding you that mastering the art of innovation is key in the title industries fast-paced world. If you're finding it tough to keep up with the changes and challenges remember you're not alone.

Our calendar is open for you. Find the link in the show notes and let's connect. Make sure to hit subscribe to not miss out on strategies that elevate and insights that empower. Together we'll navigate the future of the industry. I look forward to our next meeting in the upcoming episode.