Should Real Estate Agents Build Teams? Lessons from Top Producers | Title Agents Podcast Ep51

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Shumil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. All right, well, we are at four past the hour. So we'll go ahead and get started.

And I just want to say thank you to everybody joining. We had quite a few RSVP, and I know things happen some aren't able to join, which is why we record this and we send it out to everybody that did RSVP. And I want to take a moment to thank our panelists, Faith, who's our fearless moderator, will be introducing the panelists, as well as giving a brief introduction of herself and all tech. I'm Alex. I'm on the marketing side, and we support the webinar with sort of the technical support as well as the marketing of the of the webinar.

This is our fourth webinar is pretty new for us. We just started. It's been fabulous. We've had some great speakers, including the three that we'll meet with today. So with that, I'll turn it over to you, Faith.

Hello, I am Faith Crossgrove. I've been with all tech national title group for going on 15 years. And it's been amazing to see the growth. And especially with this new ignite Mondays that we've launched here, it's a great added value. So thank you and welcome to ignite Mondays, where we will be learning more about to team or not to team.

And if that is the right fit for you and your goals. Today, we have three top producing real estate professionals, that will be panelists. We have rich bar, john Murdoch, and that's been orange we have. They have actually been an exemplary example of running effective and efficient teams and their perspective markets. And with that, if each panelist ritual start with you, if you could just briefly share your journey in real estate, and describe what your current team looks like today.

Sure. So rich bar, we're located in Salisbury, Maryland. So we're in between the Chesapeake Bay, and the ocean, right below Delaware, my partner I have a team of roughly 30 agents. And this what we have done is basically we've created, I think we're up to 14 or 15 different businesses that are all real estate related. So everything that we do is kind of focused on, you know, a real estate transaction, what the pitfalls are, how we can make it better, and all that kind of stuff.

So that's realistically kind of why we started most of the companies and also why we grew the team was to make realistically the the client experience better. Thank you. How about you? John? Yes.

I'm on the other side of DC from rich. I'm in Northern Virginia. So I've been a licensed real estate agent for 13 years. Last year, I did 36 million with two VA. So like, I've kind of had the big team, I've been a smaller operator.

And then like rich, it's kind of funny, we're like kind of both sides of the spectrum. But I started buying other businesses a couple years ago. So but if you get really good to understanding the real estate foundation, right, building a team, we're doing it solo, right, and you make your income, then you can start scaling in different areas. So I think it's a phenomenal point for somebody to kind of learn and master that part and that craft, because there's a lot of leadership, there's a lot of basic sales fundamentals that you can learn to do other things. So that's kind of what I've been focused on for the last couple years.

Excellent, John. And Dustin, how about you? Yeah, Dustin Grenier. I am in just outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I've been doing this now for about five years.

I've grown teams throughout my other careers that I've had. Currently, I sit at eight people on my team. And it's kind of one of those things where it's like growing every single month now, that we're really trying to scale up and do stuff in other states. I'm licensed in 13 other states as well. So again, fairly new to this industry, compared to some of the experience of these gentlemen, but we're all doing the same thing here where we're building the businesses.

And like Rich and John, we started acquiring other businesses as well over the last two years. Great to be diversified. All right, we're going to jump right into the questions. Rich, I'm going to start with you. What are some clear signs that a real estate agent, lender, or others might be ready to start building a team?

Well, I think for us, it starts with a clear vision. What are you looking for? What are you trying to accomplish? There's plenty of people that they're better off just being solo. Do they want to manage people?

I think that's another big aspect of it. When you get into this, you quickly learn that it's not really about you. It's about managing other people, helping them get to their goals while you're helping your clients get to their goals and all that kind of stuff. I think sometimes people think that it's all rainbows and sunshine being up top there, but you've really got to make sure that you're ready to take care of your people, manage other people's expectations and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, be a true leader.

Absolutely. All right, John, is there a typical transaction volume, DCI level, or client workload where forming a team becomes necessary or beneficial? I don't think there's a cookie cutter like, hey, once you hit here, right? I think it's more when you have a natural development and when you have the business that's coming to be able to support a team. What Rich said, you've got to have clear expectations, 100%, but also building a team is not going from you don't need 20 agents tomorrow, do you know what I mean?

There's different levels of building a team. You can have people that help you out with showings, or you can have a transaction coordinator, you can have someone that helps you on the administrative side. There's different levels. You've got to figure out, as you're building your business, as you're doing sales, hey, what are your obstacles? You do a SWOT analysis, figure out, hey, what are your strengths at that current point?

What are your weaknesses? What are the opportunities that you have, and then what are your threats at that current level? Evaluate yourself, have some self-awareness. The best thing I had was I had a really good coach when I started building up a team, and he would literally do that exercise with me on a monthly basis and figure out, hey, where are you at? What's your bottleneck?

And then what do you need to do to overcome that? So I think everybody's different because it depends on how you structure your business, how you're getting your leads, if they're coming in. Again, where's your bottleneck, so that you can identify, hey, where's my bottleneck and how do I overcome that? Yeah, creating a seamless process so that you can keep growing. Okay, Dustin, so on the flip side, what are some indicators that a agent or lender shouldn't form a team?

Again, I think what it comes down to is you have that conversation with people and see what their needs and wants are, right? You set that expectation for them and say, hey, this is what growing a team looks like. Is this something that you want to take on? As Rich said it best, it's not all rainbows and butterflies sitting at the top. And it's a lot of expectations and managing people and you ask people how hard they want to work, right?

So there's a lot that goes into building the team and stuff. So I think it just comes down to having that conversation with them and doing that SWOT analysis that John was talking about with them and figuring out, is this something that they want? Yeah. Are you ready to lead? Are you ready to manage?

Yep. All right. So we're going to go to early decisions and challenges that you may have when you're starting to build a team, if that's something that you choose to do. And so, John, I'm going to come back to you. So who was your first hire or partnership within your team and why did you choose that role?

Yeah. So I'll answer that in a second. I think a lot of people think when you start building up a team, you automatically make more money. Right. Right.

And that's not true. Okay. That is not true. There's economies of scale, right? So whenever you start something.

So I just want everybody to understand, just because you want to build a team, that's not like always the next step for people. Right. So I just want to be clear there. Like you can actually make a lot more money. John, to that same point, just to interject there, I mean, you also need to make sure that you've built up a war chest in that same vein.

A lot of people think when you start building up a team, you automatically make more money. Right. And that's not true, okay? That is not true. There's economies of scale, right?

So whenever you start something. So I just want everybody to understand, just because you want to build a team, that's not always the next step for people, right? So I just want to be clear there. You can actually make a whole lot more money. John, to that same point, just to interject there, I mean, you also need to make sure that you've built up a war chest in that same vein, because you think you're going to make all this extra money.

No, you're going to burn a lot of money first. That's right. Yeah, that's right. This podcast is brought to you by. Struggling to set appointments and generate leads?

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It's like, no, no, no, you lose a lot before you even recoup a dollar. So yeah, Rich, you're 100% on point. My first hire was on my second transaction, candidly, because I started doing, you know, I put my first deal together and I was like, holy cow, like this whole contract to close thing is for the birds, right? I was like, this is so many details, so much organization. I just knew right away that was not my strength so I hired a transaction coordinator.

You find somebody who you can just pay cost per sale, right, and then go do that. My second hire, to kind of lead into that, was a full-time administrative staff, right? It wasn't a buyer's agent, it was a full-time administrative staff because I wanted to double down on one work, right? So I had more business coming in, right? And then my third hire was a buyer's agent to help me with the overflow of leads.

So that was my natural progression based on how I kind of built my business up, you know, from the ground up. That's great. So a transaction coordinator for certain. Okay, so I'm gonna come back to you, Dustin. Looking back, what do you wish you had known before you started building your team?

Oh, that's a lovely loaded question there, Faith. I think, you know, the biggest thing that people don't have as they build a team are systems in place. And you think you have all the systems and stuff. Like I had a great mentor and coach and still do to this day. But they don't give you all the, every single tool that you think you're actually gonna need.

So I think the biggest thing for me is just to have, you know, all the systems in place, you know, and then have a clear hiring process, you know, moving forward. Yes, absolutely. Making sure that you have your business plan set up for success so that you can start building that machine. Yes, okay, so Rich, I'm gonna come back to you. What are some of the early mistakes you made structuring or managing your team and how did you navigate through them?

Yeah, well, I would say we probably made more mistakes than we got it right, that's for sure. You know, kind of like what Dustin said, we had no systems. And basically, and I think most entrepreneurs when they do this and they said that whether they wanna set up a team or whatever, we're all really good doers and we're all really good at just saying, hey, we're gonna figure this out, right? Which to a degree is true, but not when you're actually creating a business. And I think that's where a lot of people struggle is, you know, you sit here and you say, okay, hey, we're gonna create this team.

Well, what does that mean? We're just gonna go get a bunch of agents and we're just gonna go and we're gonna go sell a ton of real estate. Well, I think realistically that the biggest mistake is people don't realize that they are at this point creating a business. So, you know, do you have a business plan? Do you have that vision?

Do you have the wherewithal to do it, the money and everything else that goes around it? And I think that's why sometimes people just get lucky, but then also I think you see a lot of people start and then a year later, you know, they got to two, three agents and they just kind of disband because they don't have any of those systems or processes or anything in place other than, hey, let's just go sell a crap ton of real estate. So I think, you know, that was definitely something that we had to learn the hard way. And then, you know, once we understood that this was a real business and not just a, you know, kind of a project, that's when we really started to prosper. Yeah, there's a ton of trial and error when you're getting your roots to build a team for sure.

Okay, John, I'm gonna come back to you. How do you know when you've made the wrong hire and what advice do you have for handling that type of situation? Yeah, well, you know, you have to get really good at recruiting and this is kind of the hard part about building a team because like, especially if you're in the weeds focusing on sales, right? A lot, what most people don't understand is you got to do that whole thing, that all the same activities that you're doing on that side on recruiting side, right? Like you gotta talk to people, you gotta build your pipeline, you gotta have your nurtures, you know, X number of days out, right?

So you have to build a whole funnel. And so what happens is just like on real estate sales, you get really good at developing a craft and an art and a dialogue on people. You gotta do that same thing on the recruiting. So, you know, it's hard at first to be able to identify, hey, who's a good fit versus who isn't a good fit, right? And so when people come on, we have a pretty rigid like 30, 60, 90 day plan, right?

To where like we have set goals for the first week, for the first month, for the first two months by 90 days. Right, and I tell people, hey, just because I brought you on board, it doesn't mean, like we're still dating, right? Because you can only get to know somebody, you know, so well through interviews. Like you could be the best interview in the world, but I guarantee you nobody's got it figured out. Like nobody, like you don't really understand somebody until they're in that role, 100%.

Doing the things that you're needing and asking them to do. So I hold my people really accountable. I've gotten better at the screening process, but I still make mistakes to this point. Like don't let anybody tell you otherwise. But you just gotta hold them really accountable.

You gotta set clear deadlines. But then what I'm more concerned with is how they act during the first 90 days. So I tend to set lofty goals, and I wanna see if they're gonna hit them. Now if they don't hit them, it doesn't mean like boom, you're fired. But I wanna see their mental attitude when they're going about this, because I wanna see how they act, how they react.

If they're not hitting their goals, do they just like kinda put their head down and like, sorry, couldn't do it, right? If they do that, boom, done. Like I just know they're not a good fit. So you have to come up with a good system and process that works for you, but get really clear on what you want them doing, and then hold them accountable to whatever that is, and be firm with it. Because again, you gotta see how they react.

Yep, you want them to have drive. Yeah, that's such a, the accountability part, I think, John, is like the most crucial part of that. And at our company, I mean, you can definitely tell when somebody after like 90 days, like, hey, are they a good culture fit, right? And we always like our saying is like, everybody has their seat on the bus. And we wanna make sure that we're all, everybody has the right seat, so.

Yeah, that's good when you're prioritizing your team. So, okay, so we're gonna actually move into team structure and roles. Rich, how do you prioritize hiring roles, processor, transaction coordinator, buyers, agent, admins, and decide what's most needed when you're building or when you have your team? I think it kinda depends on where you're at at the time. You know, I think, you know, John said, I think it was transaction number two, where he added a transaction coordinator, because, you know, he knew that that just wasn't his strong suit.

Conversely, I'm a little bit more stubborn, and I've had to get a lot better at delegation to where I didn't really bring anybody on until I was, you know, doing, pushing a hundred transactions a year. So I think some of that is just kinda understanding you and your team, but I think, you know, you have to, again, adding agents, there is a cost to that, but if you can ramp them up quicker, right then you can, you know, hopefully, you know, they're making money and you make a little bit of money. So as opposed to, you know, whether you bring on a VA or an assistant or whatever, that's a real hard cost. So you have to really understand. a hundred transactions, um, a year.

So, um, I think some of that is just kind of understanding you and in your team, but I think, you know, you have to, again, adding agents, there is a cost to that, but if you can ramp them up quicker, right, then you can, um, you know, hopefully, you know, they're making money and you make a little bit of money. So as opposed to, you know, whether you bring on a VA or an assistant or whatever, that's a real hard cost. So you have to really understand those costs associated with bringing on admin staff or office people and how who's going to pay and how they're going to get paid and all that kind of stuff, because that that's a real easy spot where, you know, if you have a bad month, all those people still have to get paid. So you have to make sure that you understand, you know, and have some sort of a buffer and figure out how those people are going to continue to get paid. Yep.

That's, that's great. Keep that in mind. And Dustin, specifically with team structure and roles, how do you personally juggle your own sales production and be a team leader at the same time? It's definitely a challenge. I'll say like the number one thing that I do is time block my calendar, right?

It's one thing that I preach to my, anybody that comes on to my team, like I show them my calendar, it's all color coordinated to, you know, green money-making activities, red, non money-making activities. You know, it, my calendar looks like a rainbow, I will say, but at the end of the day, time blocking is the biggest thing and giving up that control. That's what I struggled with too, just much like, you know, Rich, where it's like, I finally hired like a couple of VAs to help me out as well. And just delegate a lot of those, like tasks that like, Hey, I don't need to be doing this. Because again, as John said too, like you're trying to do all your own production and then, you know, trying to coach, coach your team up and, and do that.

So it's, it's a tough challenge for sure. But time blocking is the number one thing I would say. This podcast is made possible by our sponsor. You have worked so hard to build your business. So why do 70 to 80% of businesses never sell?

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I'm sure all, all three of you have great feedback as far as, you know, personally juggling, you know, your own personal production and then running a team. It's, it's almost like, you know, you're split with two, you know, two different hats. Rich, John, do either one of you have anything else to share specifically on that? Yeah, I mean, no, you're good. You're good.

Yeah. I mean, on that, I think, you know, John said it earlier, you know, especially it doesn't matter what, if you are producing, whether it's at the beginning of starting a team, during it, whatever, you're adding a second job. You have to continue to produce at that level. For, for me, and this is something that I mean, most people that start, it's because you do it because you like selling, you like selling real estate, you get enjoyment and fulfillment. Obviously, you know, there's a, there's a financial aspect to it for us to really push our growth.

I had to get out of the day-to-day sales two years ago because there's just no way that, you know, to manage our team and then the other companies. I was, there's a, as there's a point in probably a pretty long point where you have to sell to sustain your team. We got to the point where if I continued to sell and Brandy continued to sell the way that we were selling, we were actually taking away and hurting our team. So I think that's something that that's a point that you have to really, you know, be eyes wide open to and understand if, and when you get to that point. Great.

How about you, John? Yeah. I think the biggest thing is like, sometimes when, like, I remember when I was early on in my real estate career, people would talk about building systems and building a team. And it was like this whole, like, like complicated, confusing, you know, there's just no clarity around it. Right.

And so one thing that really helped me, I was like, you know, I, and it, it took me like years to like get to this point. I think like sometimes keeping it simple is actually really complex. Right. Cause you like really dumb it down and you break it down. So when I'm like, when I'm in building mode and I still do this today.

Right. But I'll literally go throughout my day and I'll, I'll, I'll write down, Hey, what did I do? Like every 30 minute interval. Right. Because we gotta be focused on bringing money in.

Right. But then also like what, when we're hiring and bringing out to the organization, we got to get those lower level dollar producing activities off our plate onto somebody else's. Right. Cause they could probably do a whole lot better than we could. Cause we're focused on so much.

Right. So literally every 30 minutes, write down, Hey, what did I do? Right. And then you get to a point after a week, you literally now have a job description for somebody else. Right.

Um, where you don't have to spend too much time, like figuring out, well, what's my hourly rate. I think we know what our hourly rate is generally. It's going to be a whole lot more when you're talking to people and converting, uh, than it is like putting in listening agreements. Or I think it's pretty basic. So just like do a quick litmus test on, Hey, where's my dollar producing activities and get all the other stuff off your plate.

I think that's a really easy way to kind of break it down. Um, so that no matter what stage you're in, in building your organization, you can definitely take that to the next step. And John, how long did it take you from starting your real estate career as a, as a single agent to building a successful team timeframe wise? Well, I got in the business in 2013 and my team really started cranking. I started trying to build a team in 2017.

Um, and we were really started cranking, I'd say in 20, like middle of 2018 and 2019. So it took me like a good year and a half to go through trial and error, figure out what worked, what didn't work. And, and even since then there's been iterations, right? So just because you have a team and you figure it out, no, no, no. Like this, this field is ever changing.

I think the most important aspect of it is have a community, have people that you can go to that are not a little bit above you, way above you, right? Because I'll go like, even like selling real estate, they're like, Hey, here's how you do it. And you're like, Oh, I can do that. And then when you, you know, at a kitchen table with a seller talking about in negotiations or pricing, you're like, uh, right. It's the same thing that happens in every single phase, right?

So when you're building a team, when you've got people that aren't hitting the metrics, it's like, what's the best way to go about that? Now you could totally wing it right. And just do trial by error. Um, but there's better ways that if you had somebody, a lifeline, a coach, a mentor, a community that you could very easily bounce ideas off of, you will save yourself. I'm telling you so much time, uh, and energy.

If you just learn how to do it the right way from day one, right. And then do it and then do it again. And then you kind of build on that, but that's going to be an iterative process. Honestly, your entire career. It's not like you just, you know, figure it out once.

Right. Turn to those with, uh, wisdom and experience and, uh, learn, learn from the best. I agree. Rich, how long did it take you, um, from starting a real estate, um, career to building your team? So when, when I got into real estate, I basically joined a small team.

It was, I was one of probably three or four. Um, so I think kind of, you know, to John's point, he, you know, again, you kind of, there, there's been so many different iterations. There's been so many different people on the team. There's been the team has looked different to set up the styles, everything. Um, so similar timeline.

I mean, I got into real estate, the end of 2016 to 2017 was really my first year. Um, and that's really when we started focusing on, on growing the team. And so I think John, John and our path were kind of similar. Um, so, you know, 2017, we were probably five agents. And I think to that same point, we, we were so super close knit and tight, which we still are, that there were probably a lot of agents that we didn't let in at the time that maybe today to get the growth that we need, that we do, but we're still super, um, protective of our culture.

So it, it, it's been quite a, uh, a change in, in a trial to get from, you know, five agents to the 30 agents. Um, but there's ways to do it and that you can still make sure that you're keeping like your, your core culture and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, you can really focus on taking care of the client and doing it the right way and the way that you want to do it. Well, how in the world in a year and a half, did you get to where you're at? that we do, but we're still super protective of our culture.

It's been quite a change in a trial to get from five agents to the 30 agents, but there's ways to do it that you can still make sure that you're keeping your core culture and all that kind of stuff. You can really focus on taking care of the client and doing it the right way and the way that you want to do it. Well, how in the world in a year and a half did you get to where you're at? You're at, what, 150 transactions per year or more? Total for our team?

Yeah. So team-wide, so with 30 agents, we'll do probably 700 to 800 transactions this year. Oh, my God. I was way off. So how did you get there?

You built that starting in, what, 2016? So you started off on a small team and then you started your own from, what, a year and a half? You started building that and now you're at 800 plus transactions per year? Yeah. One, it's about people, about bringing in the right people.

We're still very relatively stringent on who we let in the building. Faith, you've been to our office a handful of times. I think you can... Our agents are here. If they're not out on showings or whatever, they're at the building.

Not very many of them are working from home or anything like that. So just by having that culture and everybody being together, a lot of stuff happens. And then also, quite honestly, we feed our pipeline with some of the ancillary companies that we have. We build new construction, we flip a lot of houses, and then we have some relationships with some of the pretty large national home builders. So it just really depends on how far you want to go, willing to take it, and all that kind of stuff.

So I don't know that. And John brought it up too. We've had some pretty good mentors and coaches that have really helped us get there along the way. I think that, to me, that's one of the biggest takeaways is find those people, mentors, coaches that have done it and are where you want to be and pay them and let them help you compress time because that's the ultimate goal there. Yeah.

Efficiency, for sure. Dustin, how about you? How long did it, from you starting your career in real estate lending to building your team, how long did it take you? Excuse me. Yeah.

So I didn't start this team until 2024. The company itself, Epic, started in 22, late 22. So our first full year, I mean, I was like employee number seven here. And now we have like 80 people at our company in three years. And yeah, I mean, the growth from the business standpoint went from like 60 million the first year to like 200 million last year.

This year, we're going to do like 400 million. Oh my gracious. Yeah. But as far as like my specific team goes, I started it in January of 2024. And we're going to add a couple more states this year.

So I should have 20 by the end of, that's my goal for this year is to have 20 by the end of the year. Wow, that's incredible. So in just one year. All right. We're going to move into culture, retention and leadership when building a team.

And so, John, I'm going to come back to you. What strategies have you found most effective for creating and maintaining a strong team culture in real estate? So the biggest thing, I think Rich said it at the very beginning, but it's like just being crystal clear of what your goals are, right? So I know exactly, I've got my culture defined, right? And everybody knows it's like living, breathing, right?

So I only bring people on who I know are going to be a good addition to our culture. They're going to fit in, right? They're not going to be like the rotten apple in the bunch, right? So that's probably the biggest thing out of everything. It's like building the right culture.

You build the right culture through the right people. That's it, right? You can't teach that. You can't coach that. People either have it or they don't.

So you got to get really crystal clear on what you want your culture being and then bring people on that fit that culture, okay? I mean, that'll knock out 90% of any issues that you have. Because if you don't have that, then you have the people that are lazy, they're not showing up, they think that's okay, right? To act like that when in the right culture, everybody's like, no, that's just what we do, right? Like we just like Rich said, he's got a lot of people that show up in the office.

You can't coach that, right? People either want to show up or not. I heard an analogy a while back. It's like if you're the guy that you got the shopping cart when you're going to the grocery store and if you just leave it in the parking lot anywhere and then go put your groceries away and just leave it for someone else to come pick up, you're probably not thorough, you maybe cut corners, right? But if you're the guy that puts the shopping cart back where it needs to go, you're like, go put it back before you leave, that's the culture I want, right?

You don't even have to tell them to do that, they just know automatically to go do it. Right. The determination to have buy-in or ownership really with the team, that's great. Now, I will say a lot of that is like when we're looking to add quality salespeople, a lot of the driving factors that I look at is, yeah, there's humility, there's coaching, right? But you have to have that level of determination of somebody who wants it, right?

Now, typically, a lot of top performing people, they are money motivated to some degree, right? That's typically one of their number one or two determining factors in a career that they choose, right? Knowing that, you have to have an opportunity where that person can come in and create a big lifestyle and big income with you and you have to be able to have a system that supports that. Yes, that's great. And that's what team is.

Okay. So, Rich, when we're talking about culture retention and leadership, how do you find and more importantly, keep top producing talent on your team? Yeah. I mean, just like John was saying, I mean, I think in our market, we don't have the highest splits. And so, I think sometimes everybody just gravitates, well, what's the split?

How much money? This, that, or the other. I think in our building, it's way different. I mean, typically, very rarely are we bringing in some of the top, the 20-year top producers, that kind of stuff. Because quite honestly, not all the time, but most of the time, we don't want their bad habits in the building.

We don't want just kind of their nine out of 10 times their lack of culture. And then, whatever their production could be, typically, it's going to destroy that 10 times in the building. So, for us, I mean, typically, when we're recruiting, we're looking, not necessarily, but more often than not, younger agents, whether they are new to the industry completely, or maybe have been in the industry one, two, three years, and are really just looking for some mentorship and that kind of stuff. So, from that aspect, if we can get them here and get them into the building, that's when we do an insane amount of training. We have three different mandatory meetings a week and all that kind of stuff.

And we've built that culture of having senior mentors, agents and mentors and all that kind of stuff. So, there's that accountability part, but there's also the help part. There's, hey, everybody in our building wants you to succeed. This isn't go sit in the corner and I want all the leads and screw you. If somebody's out of town or whatever, somebody on our team is going to step up and go show a house for you or do whatever needs to be done, and honestly, not really expect to be compensated for it.

So, those are all the things that were really important to us when we were putting this together and still are important to us. And that's how we operate. And to John's point again, with our core values and all that kind of stuff, that's realistically how we hire and fire. You either fit our core values or you don't. And if you're here and you're not following our core values, then you're not going to be here much longer.

Right. I understand when you hire a seasoned agent, sometimes it's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, especially when you're running your business on your own personal culture. So, I get that completely. Okay. And so, Dustin, what leadership qualities have you found to be essential when managing a successful team?

I think the two that come to mind for me are accountability and communication, holding people accountable. Again, I have people on my team that, hey, they only want to do two loans a month. Great. I'll coach you to two loans a month. I have people that want to do 10, right?

Hey, I'll coach you to 10. But don't tell me that you want to do 10 and then your effort is two. So, holding people accountable is, I think, very, very clutch. Because I'm sure John does this too. Holding people accountable, again, I have people on my team that, hey, they only want to do two loans a month.

Great, I'll coach you to two loans a month. I have people that want to do 10, right? Hey, I'll coach you to 10. But let's set what, don't tell me that you want to do 10, and then your effort is two, right? So holding people accountable is, I think, very, very clutch because I'm sure John does this too, and Rich, I'm sure you guys do this as well.

It's like on those 30, 60, 90 day marks, it's like, okay, let's see where you guys are at and let me help you or do some tweaking in those regards. And again, communication, I think having the team meetings, making sure that everybody's on the same page and there are clear expectations. So I think definitely communication is the other one. Lastly, I will throw in this one because I think everybody, it doesn't matter how long you've been running a team at all, be coachable, right? You always have to be coachable.

Right, constantly be learning and be held accountable for constant improvement, agreed wholeheartedly. So we're going to move into a solo agent versus a team leader. And so Dustin, I'm going to ask you, do you believe a solo agent can still thrive at a high level in today's real estate market or is building a team necessary for scaling? Yeah, again, I think it's all going to come down to what you want, right? Like how much money do you want to make?

How much free time do you want to have? Do you want to be able to, because I know when I was first starting building a team, it was like, huh, it is like you're never off, right? Like even when you try to take a little vacation, I mean, I couldn't tell you how many times my kids are like, dad, come on, dad, come on. But again, you make those sacrifices and stuff like that for them and you explain it to them. But yeah, I mean, I for sure think that solo agents can definitely survive and thrive in this.

It just depends on what you want out of it. Yeah, and Rich, can you add upon that? Can you share upon that? Yeah, I mean, I think again, it just really depends on getting to clarity on what you want. 100% a solo agent can be successful.

It's determining what your level of success is. Is it just going out and selling a bunch of real estate and trying to make as many dollars doing that as possible? Then if that's your definition of success, that's fine. I think for most of us that are at least on the panel, that's not our definition of success. We're creators, we're builders, we want to build companies, we want to build people, we want to see all that kind of stuff.

And then realistically, some of the conversations that we're having isn't necessarily, hey, I made this amount of money on a transaction. It's more of, okay, we're creating this and we're trying to create some sort of wealth and all that kind of stuff for ourselves, but also our people and what can we do with that? So again, it's really just kind of defining your definition of that. That makes sense. Yeah, because if you have somebody that's content with making $5 million, or if you want somebody that is ready to grow and build their own team, it costs money to make money, but then you can run a very successful business.

So John, do you have anything to share on that? I do. So I think if you were to break it down and create some sort of barrier or some milestone, so if you were to say, because let's be honest, guys, if you're in order to really be okay in this economy right now, you really have to be making $2,250 a year to have some sort of cushion. And honestly, that's even just scraping by, especially if you've got kids. Holy cow, they need to be close to three or four, in my opinion, just to have a little bit of cushion room, right?

So if you say, hey, my target's $250 a year, I think as a solo agent, that'll be incredibly difficult. If you are the only one doing it for a sustained period of time, I think you'll need a team. Now, define team, right? So you could totally get away with a very, very small team, like transaction coordinator, some help with showings, and an administrative assistant. I think you can 100% attain it right there, right?

And then there's different levels of the team, right? I mean, Rich has built a phenomenal organization, Big Box. I would say a lot of people don't make it to Rich's because they just don't have the tenacity, the fortitude in the environment, right? So not a lot of teams can make it there, and a lot of teams aren't as profitable as you would think, right? So if you own a team, like a really big team, you're kinda lucky if you're making 25% net profit margin.

So if you go to back and, hey, what's my definition? A lot of teams are making 10, 20% net profit when it's all said and done. So you gotta figure out, hey, what's my target? Where do I wanna get to? Because if you build a small team, right?

I mean, you could be highly profitable, 70, 80%. Now you're gonna lose a little bit in your lifestyle, right? But you gotta figure out, hey, what's important? Is it the really high income? Do I wanna be making six, seven, 800,000, a million dollars a year?

Franking out for a couple years, buying a bunch of real estate? Or do you wanna have your lifestyle and have like a good balance there? So there's different ways, kinda like what these guys have said, on where do you wanna go? So you gotta get really clear on that. But I think there's multiple different ways of structuring it for sure.

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Scale smarter, work faster, and cut costs without sacrificing quality. Visit safivirtual.com or DM us to find your perfect VA. Safi Virtual, expert support, tailored for title professionals. Yeah, that makes sense. So we're gonna move into, or actually John, since I have you here, for top producers who don't want the full responsibility of leading a team, are there alternative or hybrid models that still support growth?

And you kinda shared a little bit about that. But if you've got somebody that's on the fence about building their own team versus just kinda running their small business, are there any alternatives? 100%, yeah. Yeah, you don't need a big organization, right? Again, you can get away with having very minimal, right?

So having a transaction coordinator, somebody on the listing side or administrative help, that's an easy one. And there's cost of sale people out there, right? That you only have to pay per transaction, so you don't have to get the big overhead, okay? You can use showing service like Showami, for example, right, and just pay. You can bid on it.

I think it's anywhere between 45 and $80 per showing, right? So you can even leverage yourself out that way. There's different ways to where you don't have to have the big overhead expense of a lot of people on salary to do this. And I think a lot of people don't get, they get caught up in the complexity. But also, like what these guys have talked about, having a good system.

Now, a system doesn't have to be super complex, right? So literally, we created, there's different companies online that you can build out workflows for, right? But literally, as soon as I take a listing, you guys, I fill out, you know, on the market, date, when we're gonna schedule photography, like I'm there with my sellers, and I'm filling this out. And then I literally input this online, and I have my team run with it. So these systems that people talk about, they don't have to be complex.

They don't have to be super complicated. They're really simple things that literally, like you give it to somebody, and they know exactly what to do, when to do it, by, like it's very clear targets and deadlines for the tasks at hand. So it doesn't have to be complex. Right. Rich, I'm gonna ask you for some advice to share with our participants today.

So what advice would you give to a top producer, who's overwhelmed by client demands, but nervous about giving up control? Well, I think, and, you know, I've learned this the hard way, and I bet a lot of other people have too. You're gonna give it up one way or another. It's gonna happen. So if you have so much business, and you're overwhelmed, and you're not willing to delegate and do those things, you're gonna lose that business, because you're not gonna do a very good job.

So, you know, I think that's the biggest lesson that I've had to learn, is, you know, and to this day, even on a transaction, very rarely will I take outside business, and it. or another, it's going to happen. So if you're, if you have so much business in, you're overwhelmed and you're not willing to delegate and do those things, you're going to lose that business because you're not going to do a very good job. So, you know, I think that's the, that's the, the biggest lesson that I've had to learn is, you know, and to this day, even, um, on a, on a transaction, very rarely will I take outside business and if I do, it's, it's a close friend, family, something like that. And, and the reason being is a year or two ago, I, I realized that I was doing those clients a disservice.

I wasn't, I wasn't able to give them the, you know, the, the level, um, of satisfaction that they deserved because of, of everything else that we're doing. So I think that that's, that's the biggest thing and you don't need to be at our level to, to feel that, to feel that stress and that pinch. So whatever it is, like, like figure out what you can realistically do and then what, uh, what else you need to leverage in, whether it's, you know, showing agents or admin or, or, or whatever it is, because you're going to get to that point and you're, you're going to lose it one way or another. So either embrace it and figure out how to do it and do it correctly, or you're going to lose it by doing a bad job. Yeah, I think we could probably have, uh, a webinar specifically on, um, the delegation and how that can benefit, uh, your, your growth.

Nobody will ever do it better than you. Right. Right, exactly. But then, like you said, you end up, you know, having, giving your clients a disservice because you can't make everybody happy and you can't do everything. So that makes, uh, that makes total sense.

Um, okay, so, uh, Dustin, what are a few actionable steps a top producer can take if they're thinking about building a team in the next year? Um, number one, I would get a mentor that I think is the biggest thing that you can can do and to help yourself, um, beyond that, you've got to be very clear about what your goals are, right? So what's, what's your vision? How do you see this, you know, kind of playing out right then you got to definitely, you know, make sure you have those systems in place, right? That, that you can just, okay, this is, we're at this stage now, you know, we have X, Y, and Z tools that we can use and, and build off of that.

Um, beyond that, the biggest thing I think that all of us have to do, if you're want to build a team at all is network, right? You got to be out there, you know, shaking hands, kissing babies. And so I always tell my people, so, um, you just always have to be out there talking to people and like, one of the questions that I, that has led to my success when I've, I've, whenever I've met somebody, I'm like, Hey, who do you know that I should be talking to? Right. It's like such a basic question, but people that you're already like working with and stuff, they want to see you succeed.

They want to help you out. Right. So I think that's a, it's a really good, good question to ask. And, um, yeah, that's what I got. Yep.

So goals, vision, mission systems, uh, your, your SWOT, uh, delegation, networking, yep, um, putting that in place. Um, okay, John, I'm going to come back to you. Um, can you share a breakthrough or success story that really confirmed building a team was the right move for you? Today's episode is sponsored by. Hey, you title agents, stop wasting time digging for answers or waiting on an email or call back from your underwriter with title GPT dot AI, you get instant, reliable answers to your title questions fast, no more delays, work smarter, close faster, and keep deals moving.

Try www.titlegpt.ai today. Um, yeah, I mean, well, I have a story, um, it's, it's more, and I, I think both of these guys have touched on it too. It's when you get to a point and you're like, oh my gosh, I forgot to do this, or I forgot to do that. And now you're playing catch up. Right.

So you may think that you have to be the guy to do it all, but I'm telling you, you're not. Um, there's other quality people that could do your same role, right? Like we are replaceable. You are replaceable. I'm sorry.

Right. I hate to break that to you. Um, but when you get to a point where you're like, oh no, right. Like you're having those moments, you need help. Um, now the goal is to be, have more situational awareness on yourself and say, you know, get to that point before you have the oops.

Right. Um, cause when you have the oops, like I've, honestly, I've had situations to where I call back and tell her, they said, oh John, like, I'm so sorry. I didn't hear from you. I forgot your email. I forgot your phone number.

Forgot to call you. So we went with someone else. I'm like dagger, right. Um, cause every time they call it, oh John, you're my guy. I'm going to use you, et cetera, et cetera.

And you know, for whatever reason it wasn't. So, um, it's just getting, getting to that point to where you're that. But I'll tell you when you do have the systems in place, the quality of your life is so much better. Like I can put my head on my pillow at night knowing like, you know, when I, when I write contracts, I, I send like, this is the level of delegation you can get to, right. I sent an email, I said, Hey, I want this, this, this, this, this, this, this.

Can you write up an offer? It's in their inbox in like 20 minutes. Right. And then to get the addendums come back and say, Hey, can you do this? This is, this is this boom.

It's done. I don't even have to think about it. I'm moving on. So, uh, you can literally get to that level of, of business, uh, to where you're very, I mean, you still know what's going on, but you're not in the weeds at all and it's a phenomenal place to be, I'll, I'll say it that way. Yeah.

Uh, delegation is imperative. I'm, I know that's right. Um, all right. And, um, RIT, so what's one tech tool, CRM, and I'm sure you guys could all probably share on this CRM or system that's been a game changer in how you run your team. Um, honestly, I mean, we, like a lot of people, I mean, we, we've used and, and, and continue to use a lot of different tech tools, but I'll tell you for us, um, it was the, the system, the system part was the accounting side.

Um, and especially having other, other bolt-on businesses. Um, so we have, uh, you know, we've gotten pretty big. So we have a, a full-time CFO. We, we have a controller behind her and, you know, bookkeeping, all that kind of stuff. So for all of our businesses, I have real time data to the penny on where we're at.

And even before that, once we actually had some, you know, for the first handful of years, it was literally just like, you know, everybody else writing checks, keep trying to keep receipts, putting them in like a shoe box, sending them to our accountant and, and maybe seeing if we made money last month, you know, or not even probably two months back kind of thing. So once we got a little, a little more clarity on that and understanding, you know, what we were spending money on, what was working, what wasn't working that for us was really a game changer. And now every decision that we make is based off of a P and L and accurate up-to-date accounting. So the, the money for, for this side, it was the biggest thing, understanding, you know, where our dollars were and what, what they were going towards. So did you, um, or have you utilized like QuickBooks or is there a different program that you might be able to recommend?

Yeah. I mean, we, we, we use QuickBooks, um, across our business. Um, and then, um, geez, we have, we have so many different, different pieces. So, I mean, you know, again, like it all kind of depends, you know, what, how big are you when you can bring somebody in house, you know, to do it versus sending it to, you know, bookkeeper account and that kind of stuff. But I think that's one of the things, especially as you're, if you're looking to build a team and all that kind of stuff is not, it's not just your in-house team, it's kind of, it's your whole collective team.

So the accounting piece to it, realistically, you're going to need a lawyer, all that kind of stuff. And not necessarily just for real estate purposes. So it's, it's the, those collective pieces, um, that, that for us were huge. That, that's great advice. I know we're, we're wrapping up.

Um, I know we've got three minutes. Thank you so much, Alex, um, for reminding us. There's just so much great information that you guys have had to share with us today. Um, and so I'm going to wrap up with this. Um, if each of you want to just kind of, um, share, uh, briefly in one sentence, what's your best piece of advice for top producing agents deciding whether or not they want to build a team?

Rich, you can go. Um, I think honest for us, it's, if you do do it for the right reasons, the money will come, take care of your clients. The rest will take care of itself. Yep. That's great advice.

How about you, Dustin? I think for me, it's, you know, if you're consistently like, uh, overwhelmed or you're missing opportunities, you know, you're doing that disservice to your clients that Rich talked about, then it's definitely time to start building the team. That's great. You're overwhelmed and you need to start delegating input systems in place. That's great, Dustin.

And then John, how about you? Yeah, I would just say when you just definitely make sure that you've got the bandwidth to take care of. Yep. That's great advice. How about you, Dustin?

I think for me, it's, you know, if you're consistently, like, overwhelmed or you're missing opportunities, you know, you're doing that disservice to your clients that Rich talked about, then it's definitely time to start building the team. That's great. You're overwhelmed and you need to start delegating input systems in place. That's great, Dustin. And then, John, how about you?

Yeah, I would just say when you just definitely make sure that you got the bandwidth to take care of building the team, right? Because a lot of people say, I built a team and then, like, people start building a team and they got no business for the team to feed on, right? So definitely make sure you have the business before you start building a team for sure. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

All right. So, Alex, I'm finished with our moderating questions. If you had anything else you wanted to share with the participants today on our webinar, we do have another one coming up the first week in July, first Monday in July. It's July 4th. I don't think I'm working.

I'm sure a lot of people are actually working. I'm sure there'll be plenty of fireworks. But it'll be the week after that, which I think is the 11th. And for me, you know, Rich, John and Dustin, this was incredible. I learned a lot.

It's really interesting because, you know, I recently, the report isn't recent, but unsurprisingly, with real estate agents, probably lenders, any industry, the top three challenges that I read from this NAR report, client acquisition and business development, and how do you balance that while still running your business? Because you always have to have your pipeline going right. So I think there was a lot of good, good input there, especially for those of you that made our Harnessing Your Network webinar, which was our May webinar. I encourage everybody to go to our YouTube channel. We'll make sure we get that out.

But that was a really good lead in to today's discussion. The second is what a lot of today's discussion was in terms of top three challenges that agents face is workload balance. How do you manage? It's basically time management. I think there were a lot of really, really good advice shared.

The time blocking I do, I think that's hugely incredible. And then the third one, and I think this might be something, Faith, that we talk about for an upcoming webinar, is that the third top challenge is how do agents, lenders differentiate themselves? What's that unique thing that you bring to the table, aside from market expertise, which I think a lot of people say? I think for Rich and John, you've got such a diversified portfolio of companies, and everybody's trying to build sort of an end-to-end solution. So I think that's a great topic that sort of addresses the top three challenges that agents face.

So it might be a good topic for a future discussion. But again, I can't wait to get some video shorts out there. I think everybody, even those that couldn't join us today, will get a lot out of the content that was shared. So we really appreciate everybody's time and insights. Thank you so much, Rich, Dustin, John.

I'm sure we will be sending up a post follow-up for everybody. We'll include their contact information, which is also listed on our Ignite Mondays website, for more information, if you'd like to connect with our panelists today. Otherwise, we will look forward to seeing you on July 11th. And that's a wrap on today's journey with Mo Shamil from the Title Agents podcast, reminding you that mastering the art of innovation is key in the title industry's fast-paced world. If you're finding it tough to keep up with the changes and challenges, remember, you're not alone.

Our calendar is open for you. Find the link in the show notes and let's connect. Make sure to hit subscribe to not miss out on strategies that elevate and insights that empower. Together, we'll navigate the future of the industry. I look forward to our next meeting in the upcoming episode.