From Morocco to 8-Figure Title Agency: Mo Choumil’s Story | Ep44

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Shamil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Hello, and welcome to The Purpose Matrix. I'm Phil Moyer, your host, and I'm here today with Mo Shamil.

Mo, how are you doing today? Fantastic. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, we have admittedly have some technology issues, but we are past them, and this is going to be a great discussion, Mo, so I apologize for that. But we are off and running officially, so thank you for your patience.

He has shown how good of a guy he is before the show already. So Mo, first, Mo grew up in Morocco, has a really interesting story about how he arrived and came to the U.S., but he's also going to talk about the foundational things he learned from his parents throughout our discussion during his upbringing, founder of Alltech National Title Company, really a neat story, really a business that he has grown and scaled over time. We're going to talk about how he has done that, and just a good guy that likes to focus on continuous growth, always trying to get better himself, and always trying to give back. So Mo, thanks so much again for coming on, and I want to hear your story a little bit more because you do have a really unique story and upbringing. So take us back into your childhood growing up in Morocco, what that was like and how that influenced who you are today.

It was really a different world back then, like in the late 70s, early 80s. Morocco is a different country now, it really is becoming more and more affluent, so back then it was very simple. I grew up, it's a big family, about six of us, and kind of scarcity was everywhere. If you didn't eat fast, you may end up the night hungry. A lot of us with minimal means, so it was really challenging going through it, but looking back, it was probably incredible shaping how I've grown from sharing shoes with my brothers to, like literally, my dad was always an entrepreneur, was a barber, then a cab driver.

So literally, we ate and we lived by what he produced that day, literally, it's kind of day-to-day. But I was kind of this father who could have instilled that entrepreneurship in my growth. I didn't know you were one of six, which is awesome, I'm one of seven, but having two boys now, Mo, sharing shoes, I imagine you're outside running, playing all the time. The shoes get worn out in two months on these boys, so I don't know how you shared shoes, but good for you. Maybe they made them better, or maybe you made them by hand or something, I don't know.

There's a shoemaker at the market down the street for whatever, let's say 10 cents, they'll patch them up, there's holes at the bottom, that was the way to kind of make them last longer. I'm going to explain to my kids, let's see how this goes, Mo, I'm going to explain to my kids that we're going to take the shoes and go bring them to the shoemaker to fix them up and you're going to wear them for two more years, whatever it is. So the other thing you talk about during your upbringing is just the importance and the mindset around education. Tell me more about that and how that has influenced you today. I was probably blessed, I guess, just fairly intelligent, I wouldn't consider myself very intelligent, but I had enough IQ, I guess, to kill off my parents who had great education, so I literally had to learn my own kind of things, nobody there to push me, besides kind of the encouragement to get a degree, go to school, that encouragement, I was very lucky to have my uncle and my aunts, they're all educated, I spent a lot of time with them, they were older, it was a great model to have, being kind of exposed to English literature at an early age, to philosophy, to literature, it was great hanging out with them when I was in early teens, having role models with college degrees and law degrees, I was kind of really sucked into that, it was great energy to be around, but I was blessed with enough intelligence kind of just to make it on my own without much support, I mean, my parents gave me the love and enough food and enough clothes, but the rest of it is clearly kind of just being blessed, I guess, with enough IQ and talent.

So I want to talk about that, I actually, I know you have, how old is your son? I should have said that. My son is 11 years old. So 11 years old, so how, like, he's in a different spot, you know, and I mean, we're going to talk about your business and the success you've had, but I just want to compare the two a little bit because they're such, you know, I look back at my childhood versus our kids and they're different, but your difference is dramatic, right? So how do you, you know, I think at the end of the day, parenting, love and time, food and clothes, like, that's what you need, right?

And if you give those things, the kids can have whatever, that's all they really, really need, but you're in a different spot now, like, how do you think about your upbringing and how does that impact your parenting philosophy today, if I can ask that? This podcast is brought to you by Struggling to set appointments and generate leads? What if you had a team working behind the scenes to help you book more meetings and close more deals? At Alltech National Title, our dedicated inside sales team help you find your pipeline so you can focus on what you do best, building relationships and closing business. Why join us?

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No red tape, just the resources to help you thrive. Ready to take your career to the next level? Visit alltechnationaltitle.com or DM us today to start the conversation. Well, I think that like in the Western world or at least in the entrepreneurial world, so if all of us can have that, have enough means to kind of spoil our kids, like clearly kind of that instinct, I never want my son to suffer or to go through what I do. But if you really think deeper about it, where adversity comes growth, that's how clearly people are shaped.

So how do you find that balance? Again, a lot of parents struggle with this. How do you kind of give them what they need, what they want, not they want, what they need? Same time, keep them hungry and driven. And I think I've done fairly about my wife and I, not just me, enough job for not spoiling our son.

I mean, we play good cop, bad cop. I'm the good cop, my wife is the bad cop. Lucky you, look at you now. But it's really my, I was driving my son to school this morning, he's working on a spreadsheet, he's in fifth grade. So him and somebody else at school, they're working on selling snacks because he needs to make money.

So like really good entrepreneur already, he's looking for ways to make money. He's like, I have to make money, but what do you make money for? He wants to buy stuff like jerseys, sneakers, you know, whatever you make, it's a third, a third, a third. A third he can play with, a third he can save, a third he can put in. So he understands if he wants to get a $50 shoe, whatever that may be, let's make $150 so he can do that third, third, third, keep him grounded in a way.

This is interesting because, gosh, if my daughter hears this, but this morning we're having a conversation, she's getting ready for school. So first we're like, hey, you're old enough, you can get ready for school yourself. You can set your alarm, you need to take the responsibility. Then she's like, and we live, I don't know, a quarter, a half mile walk from the school, really close. She's old enough where the traffic isn't a big deal.

And I'm like, if you're not on time, you are walking. Your mom is not driving you to school, you will be walking. And she's like, it's so easy, it's right there. Then get up earlier, it would be so easy for us to drive. And guess what?

She figured it out. She made the bus on time because I think she thought I was serious. And I told my wife, I just said, we have to make her do that. We have to make her walk one time because then she'll figure out the response. It is.

Is my approach to it always the best? Probably not, Mo. But I think I agree that we have to, this is everybody listening. This is all a society. We have to allow our kids to go through adversity because the nature, if you have the opportunity to even be listening to a discussion like this, then you're probably wealthy relative to the rest of the world, right?

So giving, just putting our kids in adverse situations and challenges, I think is important. I want to talk about your message to your kids because I wonder what your philosophy is on this, if I can ask. A third to play with, a third to save, and a third to donate. That's a pretty significant, you know, you talk about giving, that's a big number. So I just want to give credit to you for that.

Tell me more about how you came up with that. To be honest with you, I have no idea how we came up with that formula. I'm sure we just told somebody, I said, earlier on, we had this little piggy banks when he was like a one or two, I was at his three piggy banks, it was like, whatever money he gets from whoever he gets it, it's just a third, a third, a third, and it's how we kept it for simplicity. Should that, that'll evolve and it'll change, I'm sure, but it's just how we've done it so far. wanna give credit to you for that.

Tell me more about how you came up with that. To be honest with you, I have no idea how we came up with that formula. I'm sure we just sold on somebody. It's like early on we had this little piggy banks when he was like a one or two. I was at his three piggy banks.

It's like whatever money he gets from whoever he gets it, it's just a third, a third, a third. It's how we kept it for simplicity. I'm sure that'll evolve and it'll change, I'm sure. But it's just how we've done it so far. I love that.

And good for, I mean, honestly, it's again, just good for you for how you're doing that. So I didn't wanna, I just, it resonated with me even the conversation of how different your childhood would have been to your son's and just being, I would say, disciplined about your approach because we do wanna spoil our kids and that's fun. That's easy. We wanna kind of spoil ourselves by doing that in a way, but it's not the best thing for them. The measure of success is that how much we spoil them now, it's what kind of adults and human beings they become long-term.

So tell me more about your story now. So your childhood in Morocco, your dad was an entrepreneur, so you kind of had that blood a little bit, if you will. You focused on education. When did you move? What did that all look like?

We moved right after high school. We went to the D.C. area, like in Fairfax, Virginia. So just moved and applied to a community college and went to college for three years. I had never finished my degree.

It was literally working full-time, going to school full-time and still finding time to party on weekends. It was a lot. So your priorities were work, school, fun, right? In college, it was work, school, fun, and that's what, yeah. It was literally, it was a blast.

When people complain about work, but I didn't know anything. Naive to say it's my best thing. Wow, I'm in the U.S. I mean, heaven, it's paradise. I get to earn that money, I get to go to school, I get to play at nights and have fun with friends.

So I didn't know any better. I just say, ignore this list, it's all new. And I didn't have a choice. This is literally kind of, and on top of that, you still have to find, save money to send back home to help support. Like, my story on my LinkedIn profile, literally my aunt borrowed, sold her jewelry to be able to, for me, I can buy a plane ticket and have some spending money.

I had like 70, 80 bucks left. I have to buy a plane ticket. So literally, I had to pay that back and then also keep supporting the family, just. Yeah, so you went to, so you started college. You didn't finish, and then you started working, working more and more.

Like, what are the, let's fast-forward through I mean, I've always worked in, I always worked at restaurants. So it was a couple of hours. Was always quickest way to make money without having to work eight, 10 hours. Four or five hours, it'd be a hundred bucks. That's a lot of money back in the 90s.

That was a lot of money in the day. So, and that's how I get the, then about 10 years into it, maybe less than that, less than that, five years into it, I got recruited by one of my clients at the restaurant, who had an abstract company that did title search in the courthouse. His name is Joe Wood. Was one of the early mentors to me. He was like a regular for about four or five, six months.

And he like, hey, why don't you come work for me to do abstracts. What is an abstract? Like, I don't know the title. Like, what's the title? I have no clue what it is.

Like, so you expect me to leave a cash tip to go and get about like a salary or hourly raise. I have no idea what that means. Yeah. And he was so kind enough that I just said, it was great to me, so I ended up doing it. And I crushed it.

I was kind of really just to, I don't know, it was one of the top employees at a company, but there was no room for growth. It was always entrepreneurial. I was always a clear late night, watching those infomercials. It was back in the day, now it's all on YouTube or TikTok. Back in the day, it was infomercials on late night TVs, trying to sell you in these courses and real estate, you name it.

Maxed out so many credit cards and all these courses that never worked. There's so many things that have failed. This podcast is made possible by our sponsor. You have worked so hard to build your business. So why do 70 to 80% of businesses never sell?

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And I would say that when you're younger, you didn't know it at the time, I don't think, but while you were working at the restaurants, you were building your personal brand with other people by how you showed up, how you smiled, how you communicated, all those different things, right? That first boss of yours in the title business recognized something about you just through who you were. So I think for our younger listeners, really everyone, you're always building your personal brand and other people are always saying that. That's why I tell young people because whether you're being intentional about it or not, it's building, so you might as well be intentional about it because you never know who's really watching. So that's a pretty cool story, but you're entrepreneurial.

So you start the title company a few years later and what happens from there? Yeah, so there was really no room for growth within the abstract company. So it was family, Joe's brother was there, his best friend and also friend. There was really no room for leadership or for growth. So what, three, four years into it, I branched out to my own abstract company, did that Metro title, did that for three, four more years.

Then there was a natural progression, kind of 2001, I just launched a title abstract company in the DC area. And we've grown that, it was very lucky, like when we started, kind of the rates were down and we kind of, we had a good wave, we had a great time to start. Then around 2008 with the financial crash, then we really kind of was very tough. So many people, then we start gradually growing again. And then, but the rocket fuel for us was COVID.

We were, we literally was, we were very lucky to move to the clouds early on, like four or five years earlier. So when COVID happened, everybody had to go back home and work, we're prepared for that. And also we started offshoring about four or five years earlier as well, like in 17, 18. So we literally were perfectly positioned to take advantage of that kind of massive overflow business that kind of helped us to like literally triple or triple our business in 2020, 2021. So I just, I wanna, how, I wanna ask you a question about the size of your business today, because I wanna go back, I wanna help people understand that so that when I go back to what it took to grow in scale, they understand that.

So what does your business look like today? And then we'll go back a little bit. We're a low eight figure company. So we probably do about five, 6,000 transactions a year by closing the year. So a lot of transactions every single week.

So this is not a small business, a lot of employees, a lot of transactions. So just to put this in perspective, so take me back to, so first of all, one thing I heard is that you really focused on technology and investments in technology and understanding technology to learn, to scale, to grow. So just for the business centers today, are you staying connected to technology? Do you have resources to help you learn those things? I think that's important, but I wanna go to like interpersonal leadership.

What other things outside of technology do you think have been the keys to your success and to your growth and the ability to scale your business? Probably the number one thing is really always, always working on myself. I kind of just always been thirsty and hungry for learning. Was unconscious about it, but then later in life, look what was probably the biggest thing. I got introduced to Tony Robbins 30 years ago.

I was like, wow. That was the best thing ever, ordering that personal power 30-day course. So for the first time, I believe that I can achieve anything in life, literally. Going from a mindset of, hey, waiter, we're doing whatever, to believe that I can achieve anything in life. That's just all about how it, I mean, I just was a mind shift.

Then I've been clearly followed Tony, Zig Ziglar, you name all the personal growth and personal development, kind of the who's who of bread, I'm a sponge. I always read, I always learn, podcasts, conferences, workshops, seminars, you name it, something I was looking at really hungry for and thirsty for knowledge. And I would just say that, for our listeners, just listen to that because what I heard Mo is. I mean, I just was a mind shift. Then I've been the clearly follow Tony, Zig Ziglar, you name all the personal growth and personal development, kind of the who's who of bread, I'm a sponge.

I always read, I always learn, podcasts, conferences, workshops, seminars, you name it, something. I was looking really hungry for and thirsty for knowledge. And I would just say that for our listeners, just listen to that. Because what I heard, Mo, is Tony Robbins, 30 years ago, I cannot imagine the compound effect over a 30 year time period of that, just getting that exposure to him at that point in time. And then just being thirsty and being a sponge, as you said.

So if you're 20 years old, some people say like, what should my first investment look like? And they don't love my answer. It's in yourself. It has to be in yourself. If it's, it might be a silly course.

It could be a great course that changes your life. You don't know. There's all kinds of content online, all kinds of education online. You can find it on just podcasts, YouTube, wherever. But there's so many phenomenal books of successful people that you can learn from.

So invest in yourself. And a book is $15 or $20. If it has one little influence on your life, it's so worth it, just buy it. People say, hey, can I share this? Just buy the book.

Support the person that wrote it and just buy the book. But just investing in yourself first is so important. And if you're 20, if you're 30, if you're 40, if you're listening to this, you're probably doing that. You're probably consuming content, consuming information, and trying to learn. But I would just encourage you to do more of it because the compound effect for you over 10 or 20 or 30 years can be extremely profound.

So I appreciate you pointing that out, Mo, and just really always working on yourself. What else? So outside, so you're working on yourself. So let's talk the business. What did that lead you to doing with your business?

Like what are the major things you learned that you applied to your business? And I mean, it's learning, it's always learning. Probably the best school is the school of hard knocks. The settings, as I said earlier, like literally ignores his blitz. Sometimes what you taught, if you know what you, if I knew what I know now back then or what I've never started, but not knowing, kind of just learn and go, making mistakes.

And through literally grit, drive, and dreams of kind of scaling the company to like a nice figure, that's the ultimate goal. And just kind of making mistakes along the way. And hopefully you're not making fatal mistakes. Make tons of mistakes and kind of just to literally, hopefully they're not wrong. Puts you out of business.

And really the power of delegation, just to kind of surround yourself with strong people that can really kind of help implement your vision, execute on your initiatives and your plan and strategy. So what, what just, you said the word delegation. What would you say is your, like, what is your leadership style? How would you explain that to someone? My leadership style is more of a carrot than a stick.

I wish it had been more of a stick. It's really more of a carrot, it's kind of really my philosophy, hiring grownups and treating them like grownups. Let them do, let them be adults. That's part of my philosophy, like just hire great people and let them do their thing. Just to, I don't believe in micromanagement.

I wish I was more micromanaged sometimes, but that's not who I am. It's hiring, it's the who, not how, have amazing who's. And then just to let them be, let them do their thing. This podcast is proudly sponsored by. Need extra hands without extra overhead?

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Safi Virtual, expert support, tailored for title professionals. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think if you have, first of all, if you have to be micromanaging, right, then maybe you don't have the right people. And it's all about hiring great, great people, right? And then the who, not how, and there's a lot of ways to get the right people and a lot of resources and tools to help identify those people. And I think, I mean, my suspicion is, like you talked about, maybe sometimes I wish I micromanaged more or I wish I used a stick.

I think those things could have served you in different situations in the short term and made individual situations better. But I also don't think the size of your business, the scale of your business, the success you've had, if you did that consistently over time, you would not be where you are today, right? And it's really more about the carrot and getting the right people, taking care of those people than it is the stick. And I, you know, in the corporate world, I saw people that completely managed with the stick and they could get results done and really, really fast. And it just wasn't and isn't sustainable.

So the other thing I want to know- The other thing Tony Robbins, to be real real quick about, Tony Robbins talks about the power of remote, the pull versus the push, like for you to go long ways of pulling people towards you versus kind of find a push. Like push is a lot of effort, a pull is more kind of attracting that energy, attracting people towards you. That takes you a longer way, it's more matter, more possible than the push. Yeah, so carrot and the pull. So let's talk about that.

So how do you pull them? What are you doing? What are the key elements? Like how, what do you have to be doing to bring them, like for them to want to follow? Literally just being fair, kind, and treat them like adults, with respect.

Like I don't think I ever raised my voice or yelled that, I mean, they'd be like, people should have want to kill them but I would never get to raise my voice or maybe yell at them, kind of just sort of, that's probably, it goes a long ways. Just to, you have to really control your emotions, control how they perceive you, this goes a long ways. Yeah, I love the quote from John Maxwell, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, right? And if you just, if you, like, what I love about your answer, honestly, is there is a lot of different strategies we could talk about to leadership, there's a lot of them. But at the end of the day, if you're just, you know, fair, kind, respect, you know, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

If you show that, they will get their stuff done. And they may, they need training, they need support, there's all kinds of things we could talk about. But if you just, if you keep it simple and take that approach, I think you can be really, really successful. I wanna also talk about, I mean, you talked about before, and I didn't come back to it, but, you talked about dreams and, like, your dreams, visions, big picture, what you wanted the business to look like. But you also, and then you talked about growth and education.

But you talked about the school of hard knocks, and I think what's important is, for people to understand, you can, you can get, like, I think you need to get clear on what you want. You need to educate yourself. I think associating with others is important, and this is part of the purpose matrix, but you gotta have the courage to act. Once you have, once you get the conviction and a little bit of education, you gotta act. And I think when you have education with action, there's this do loop of confidence and other things, like, a lot of positive things that happen.

It gives you more education, which gives you the conviction to act more, and there's this virtuous, positive cycle that happens. So how have you combined those two? Like, are you constantly doing, trying to do both together? Can you rephrase the question? Let me make sure I understand it clearly.

Yeah, so just the combination of education and action and how you bring those two together to build kind of confidence and conviction. Well, again, I keep going back to Tony Robbins. His ultimate power is in action. Like, he can, he can talk all he wants. He can have the best plans.

He can have the best strategy. And until you act, nothing happens. So literally, kind of, it's just to take a massive action, to learn from your mistakes and keep moving forward. I've made so many mistakes. I mean, I can't write a book.

Wrong hires, wrong mistakes, wrong, but you gotta keep plugging. You gotta, you wake up with a smile and keep moving forward, keep taking action to work. Like, last three, last three, we had a fourth year of recession, like in real estate. Most people are not even aware of it. Today is Thursday, April the 3rd, and I think the market is crashing, like, because of all the tariffs.

But our business, like, literally fourth year of recession, and like, it's been very brutal. Like, it's just in my, great in my resolve. And like, how do you wake up with a smile when the world is, like, still has ended sometimes? But how do you keep moving forward and keep taking action and can, towards, towards kind of the, hopefully the goals of the market turning around. Today's episode is sponsored by.

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Yeah, and I think on the ultimate powers, the action, I think Hey you title agents stop wasting time digging for answers or waiting on email or call back from your underwriter With title GPT dot AI you get instant reliable answers to your title questions fast No more delays work smarter close faster and keep deals moving Try www.title GPT dot AI today Yeah Yeah, and I think on the ultimate power is the action I think there's I think if you're if you're the person like maybe I am we're overthinking over analyze I have to be teaching telling myself take action take action take action be smart about it But take action right if you're the person that takes action blindly and just goes goes goes make sure you're prioritizing education with the action to And I'll just say mo that I think the thing that stands out For you that you didn't talk about on the pole versus push because you're you're very humble is You just have an energy and attitude Smile to you. That is very very contingent contagious, and I'm sure your employees in your organization see that so I want to ask Today you've had all this success How do you now like how do you define success what does that what does that mean to you Man that's a it's a little bit of questions and so it's as entrepreneurs or even maybe just human beings I guess like the one thing is very hard for me to To really stop and think that I'm successful Because it's always the grind the cycles up and down like right now I said I can if to be honest with you feel kind of failure I'm gonna be smiling but like hey, what if what if we're out of cash? What if we don't make it? What if like it just there's so many negative thoughts, but how do you stay positive? But I compared to what I was 30 years ago compared to most people very blessed but for me, maybe that Ongoing hunger, maybe that drive that's kind of always seeking more whatever they may be and a lot of it with chess It's very challenging as a especially in the Western world.

We never know what it's enough is what enough what it is So we always got requests. It's a game chase. It's why it's best to describe. It's keep keep on go It's never and but but isn't it for you? It seems like you know, just to tie it back to the beginning part of the story in education and just being a sponge I think you're just really curious like you just you're really curious to see Just to keep leaning in to keep going and to find out.

Okay, who are you are? What are you made of? I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep testing myself to figure that out Is that do you think even if you don't know? What that endgame looks like you're you're really you're just naturally driven and driven to keep going and to find that out It seems like Yeah, it's really I'm just the way I'm wired.

You have to understand yourself how you wired what drives you like when you All about grow. It's like Lily that one of my tagline is like helping people become a better version of selves ourselves How to get better like physically Financially spiritually is how do you get it's used a lot of you a lot of juice from growth And if you and they all the others go it's been like we're not growing your dimes and I think like Lily It's it's actually true. Yep Like we just it's how I'm wired I feel like juiced and feel like lit energized when I'm kind of moving forward It's like when when I was running operation the company I was kind of drained and it was really tough Dying inside but now maybe higher conversations all back roads all kind of Partnerships M&A joint ventures recruiting. That's always it's all back road. It's just kind of Excites me make a perfect.

This is not work to me. That makes any sense It does and I want to I want to I want to hit a couple things here So, um, first of all going back to leadership again, you're you're being humble But like you're focusing on how do I help people be better versions of themselves? I'm sure you're doing with this employee with this with employees. You're having those types of conversations. You're challenging them And you said even you know, not just from a professional perspective, but you know spiritual physical whatever it might be But the other thing you just said I you know I'm connecting the dots to something you said a little bit ago to you you use the word rocket fuel and You said you were drained in operations, but now you're doing more of the visionary role So if you're familiar with Gino Wichman wrote the book rocket fuel and it's all about Understanding yourself and really what you enjoy doing and a lot of time there there can be Founders or owners that are really good operational people there.

He calls them integrators Mo is talking about himself as the visionary and I think he's probably found integrator or integrators to operate and run his business that enjoy doing that and he is now prospering because He's he's worked to understand himself what he enjoys doing and he's he's loving it and he's because of it He's a better leader and bringing more energy to the whole organization because of it So tell me was that was that book that brought you to that recognition or how did you go? How did you work through that process? Oh, yeah I would say I would say books not just book the rocket fuel probably read that ten years ago Maybe less by the original book was the emit. That was the first one like that Gerber I guess. Yeah How do you build a company and not a job?

A lot of people into been this the wrong reasons and they they they buy a job not a business So kind of the old same kind of concept how to build systems of processes and people but the whole integrator I'm a big believer that can have been like the COO integrator director of operations Whatever that term is somebody can handle the execution first and I would literally the person her name is hope she's incredible she's started off with a company about 13 14 years ago as a front desk person and Like now she runs the company operation, which is incredible, but she was a she's a sponge as well She's gonna learn to listen then kind of molded But a lot of it has to do with her that she's just a sponge and she always learned it and So what's amazing to have a kind of that right-hand person? How much do you think? So I we hosted a business leaders lunch for local business leaders in our area In the last couple of weeks and we had this discussion about okay. What are the true roles of a leader and we talked about? vision Culture and then you know acquisitions deal flow business development revenue growth like strategic sales things like that is the third one.

So again vision Culture and gross were the three elements What we didn't say was one of them was Operations and execution and just getting things done But there was some dialogue that no I as the CEO as the president of the company I need to show that I'm doing that as well. How do you do you need to show that? do you need to be doing that or How would you explain that to that person up that? Well, maybe early on early on you have to make literally when you're one two, three person company Everybody's wearing so many hats when you have a hundred person company, then I mean hope will run circles around me Look, yeah, it's like not even it's a mismatch. It can't even come close to what she can do But does the organization?

I think for me what it comes down to is your people understanding that there are different roles and the most value that you know can bring to the company is Communicating the vision and where we're going building the culture and of the organization through your leadership through your energy through just carrying all the things we talked about and Then the strategic sales and business development items those that is the biggest impact you can have So you need to focus on that so you need others to focus on the execution I that it's just helping people under I'm not Disappearing. I'm not doing nothing. I'm doing really big needle movers that helps us get to where what our vision is Why the best example where has Elon been Elon Musk for the last two three months? Yeah company still running I mean, I've been I'm not confirmed. So in my opinion is the best best Entrepreneur of all time love him or hate him.

It doesn't relevant, but I've never seen anybody built much five six seven billion our companies That's just insane Anybody build a business? So Lily this doesn't you don't have to do the vision It's by the most important part is the vision and the second things by the execution You can have all the vision world can have all the goals and all the dreams. We don't execute everything is They say idea that I'm a dozen it's all about execution No, you are the Moroccan Elon. Don't let anybody else tell you any different So without a doubt you are the Moroccan Elon, but honestly great. It's it's it's it's it's like I There there's a there is different phases of your business and recognizing that you're going to be operational when you're starting But just I think the earlier you recognize you can't always be doing that the better so you start to put the right people in the right seats you start to build the right system systems and processes in place to Enable you to do more of the high level CEO type things and then step in operations less and less over time to where then you can hire someone to do that because you don't get that benefit of always doing that right away, but You just can't you can't use that as the operations as an excuse to not be doing Vision culture and business development in my opinion.

So thank you for confirming what my opinion is And we'll see if that person listens and if he agrees or disagrees No, we're wrapping up here. And this has been a great discussion. I want you to just step back and think about What you've done, you know just from your childhood to where you are Now the business you built the people you've impacted with your leadership. How does what you do? How does it make?

You can't use that as the operations as an excuse to not be doing vision, culture, and business development, in my opinion. So thank you for confirming what my opinion is, and we'll see if that person listens, and if he agrees or disagrees. Mo, we're wrapping up here, and this has been a great discussion. I want you to just step back and think about what you've done, you know, just from your childhood to where you are now, the business you've built, the people you've impacted with your leadership. How does what you do, how does it make you feel?

I feel very fulfilled. That makes it, it's been a dream, and it's a quest. It's a never-ending quest. Lately, I don't plan on retiring ever. I know a lot of mentors that are in their 70s, 80s, that are still working because they feel, as they say, when you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.

And I think if you enjoy what you're doing, if you enjoy the growth, some ecstatic. I mean, I wish things were better financially right now. So we're in a little downturn. This is the fourth year, as I said earlier. But if I die tomorrow, that would be a big smile on my face, and I'm just very, very blessed and grateful for the people around me, for all the people that helped me, for the Go Vandas community, and for all my friends and family.

I love it, I love it. Well, Mo, thank you so much for coming on. I just appreciate it so much. I've learned so much from this discussion, and I just, I said it, but I just appreciate your sincerity, your authenticity, your attitude. And I can just tell, I mean, you're very humble, but the leadership you bring to your organization, your understanding of what your true role is, even getting into the personal discussions on parenting and the perspective that you took from Morocco on how you're raising your kids.

We covered a lot of great ground, and I appreciate you coming on so much. How can people find out more about you? Find it best ways on my LinkedIn profile, Mo Shamil, or visit the company at alltechnational.com. Awesome, Mo. Again, I thank you so much for coming on.

A lot of value to our listeners. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you're getting value out of this. If you can, please leave a review, subscribe to our show. We just appreciate you so much.

Thank you. Thank you, Phil. And that's a wrap on today's journey with Mo Shamil from the Title Agents podcast, reminding you that mastering the art of innovation is key in the title industry's fast-paced world. If you're finding it tough to keep up with the changes and challenges, remember, you're not alone. Our calendar is open for you.

Find the link in the show notes and let's connect. Make sure to hit subscribe to not miss out on strategies that elevate and insights that empower. Together, we'll navigate the future of the industry. I look forward to our next meeting in the upcoming episode.