How Bill Shaddock Built Capital Title Into a National Powerhouse | Title Agents Podcast Ep27

culture eats business strategy for breakfast. It's all about creating a great home team that likes one another, fights as a unit. It's all about building a culture where you strive for excellence. It's all about building a culture that values people more than corporate profits. In a world where change is the only constant, Moe Shamil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation.

With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Title Agent Podcast, where we dive deep into success stories and strategies in the title industry. Today, I'm really thrilled to have Bill Shattuck, founder of Capital Title, a true sales entrepreneur. Bill's journey from the ground up to building one of Texas' largest title companies, and I think one of the largest in the country, is packed with lessons on growth, resilience, and innovation.

If you're looking for insights on leadership, scaling, and navigating industry shifts, this episode is for you. Welcome, Bill. Thank you. Welcome. How are you?

Happy Thanksgiving. We're recording this podcast right after Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you. I'm looking, it's a great day.

Beautiful day. That's awesome. Well, let's dive in. Can you share a little bit about your journey in the title industry, and what first inspired you to venture into this field? Well, it's connected.

I came to Dallas as an attorney. I did real estate and trial-related work. I left there to join my brother after about four years, in the real estate field. He was building houses, and I was going to develop subdivisions. And I noticed that certain of my friends were forming fee attorney offices, and I'm very entrepreneurial, so I said, let's go.

I got Billy Vaughn, and Billy said he'd back me, and I said, I mean, back me because he was an underwriter. So I said, crank it up, let's go. I think I had the three things, I call it the entrepreneurial trifecta. I didn't have any money, I didn't know what I was doing, and I didn't have any customers besides my brother. Operating the- Perfect formula.

What can go wrong? A very low cost of operating the business, it was just me. Main reason is I didn't have any money to hire a person to do it, so I did it all myself. I remember I was a fee attorney for Dallas-Title. People would call, and they'd say, may I speak to Bill Shattuck?

I would answer the phone and say, this is he. Let's go. So it all started there, 1987. 1987, that's awesome. So we have a national audience.

For those who may not be familiar with a fee attorney office, what is that? What is a fee attorney for the East Coast and Midwest? I don't have that term. Agencies, in a sense, have offices, which are called directs. And they can include fee attorneys, which are attorneys which they license to operate one of their offices.

And they share premiums with the, and perform certain duties and functions for the fee attorney, for the attorney. So you told the audience you had the perfect trifecta, the perfect formula to start a company, and I have a similar background as you, like started not knowing anything about title, except my abstracting background. And so what were some of the biggest challenges you faced when you started in capital title, and how did you overcome them? Well, it was just me. It was just a long climb.

I've always been good at getting business. So I am, by nature, less of a title person and more of a sales-related person. So I'm really in two businesses today. I'm in the people business, and I'm in the relationship business. That's what I do for a living.

And that's what I did when I was back then. So I would make friends, get people to use the title company, and just, the struggle is, you don't have money to do anything. And you don't have a good client base. And there were meant struggles, but I'm a pretty confident guy, pretty good with people and relationships. I get the ship to shore.

That's awesome, Bill. You are in a people business and relationship business. It's a lot of times, not only in title, but most businesses, people don't understand what business they're in. They think they're in title, where it's really in communication, relationship, and people business at the end of the day, because anybody can provide title services. I'm in the take business, and I'm in the, people do business with people they know, trust, and like.

And if they're in business with you, it's because they know, trust, and like someone more than they do you. So you've got to get into a position of relationship with them, whereby they will know, trust, and like you, and send you their business. One of the misconceptions of the business is that people do business with title companies. They actually don't do business with title companies. I don't ever ask people to send business to Capital Title, for example.

I tell people to send business to me. Bill. We've never gotten, there's not one deal that's written from Compass Real Estate to Capital Title. It's always a person at Compass who sends a deal to a person, a closer at Capital Title. It's personal, it's not company.

Yeah. Bill, you literally just confirmed something I've been saying for years to my sales team. Like people do business with people. It really doesn't matter. It matters to a point, you have to have a good reputation, obviously, that really people do business with people.

And I'm going to use this to seal the deal with my team. Like Bill said it, and it is the truth. So. It's true. So you've grown Capital Title from humble beginnings to not know what you're doing, limited resources to literally the top title company, independent title company in Texas, which is a huge feast.

Congratulations, Bill. It's been a top company in the United States. What key strategies or instrumental is killing the business besides the relationships? Well, key strategies are the values and ideals which underpin how we do business. We're a family business and a business family.

Our key strength is culture. That's how we attract and maintain great talent is people are seeking great culture. Peter Drucker, who wrote the books in business that I studied, said that culture eats business strategy for breakfast. It's all about creating a great home team that likes one another, fights as a unit. It's all about building a culture where you strive for excellence.

It's all about building a culture that values people more than corporate profits. It's all about building a culture which stands for something more than a quarterly income statement. I love our people and our people, I think, love me and our company culture. It's the thing that you would feel first if you happen to leave here. As a matter of fact, over 90% of the people who have ever left our company have either tried to come back or have come back because large companies which value profit over people don't deliver what people are really seeking.

I truly love the values of the culture and values you said was part of instrumental new growth. Were the culture, was it intentional? Because a lot of times entrepreneurs fall for the trap and not focus on culture and then the team builds that culture or it's all over the place. It's not intentional, it's not cohesive and can a lot of times stumble the growth of a company. So were you very intentional from the beginning?

Was something you learned like from Drucker Miller and you posted it on the walls, you lived it? How did you go about implementing it? I'm honored to be free. app and not focus on culture and then the team builds that culture or it's all over the place. It's not intentional.

It's not cohesive and can a lot of times stumble the growth of a company. So were you very intentional from the beginning or something you learned like from Drucker Miller and you posted it on the walls, you lived it. How did you go about it? I wanted to be free. I try to empower people.

I try to encourage people. Our leadership here, you can tell I'm not big on titles. I'm not big on management. I'm not big on senior sages to talk about the way it used to be done. I'm looking for entrepreneurial people who want an opportunity to grow and be all they can be that want authority and one time my son said, I told him I kind of dislike big business and he said, yeah, well, dad, you're becoming kind of big yourself and I said, well, well, I said, we may be, but we'll ultimately always ultimately be a collection of smaller companies versus a big company.

We are not top down or bottoms up. Our leadership works for our team. They encourage our team. Our team runs this company. It's just not top down as always would tell somebody if you like to get told what to do, you would hate our company.

That's awesome. I see a lot of stuff we're doing and a lot of stuff I believe in. I've seen you. That's why I was very excited about having you on the podcast. It's an honor, Bill.

Not everybody wants it. It's not about egos. Not everybody wants to pay the price for their success. They want the success. They might say they are, but normally you have to compete and win to get the prize.

That's not just showing up or following company policy manuals. I don't know. My main competitors are Fortune 500 companies. They have a wealth of resources. They have big speakers, I'm sure, but we compete very well with those people because we present a culture that their people want in Long Farm.

We deliver excellence to our customers when we do that. Their customers want to come here, and their people want to come here, and they do. That's awesome. You know how competitive the title industry is, especially in the down market the past couple of years. How do you position Capital Title to stand out and stay competitive, especially amongst the Goliaths?

That doesn't bother me at all. We have plenty of money. It doesn't take a billion dollars to run this business. We've always been blessed with resources to be able to operate and grow the company. That's all you need.

It's kind of like going to college and you think, well, I'd like to get 10 grand a month. Is that what you need? No, but it would be fine, but we don't need that. Our customers have honored us with their loyalty and their business, and they provide all the money we need. We have no debt.

We've never had debt. We don't go in debt. We don't have shareholders that are manning their money or wondering what happened, and I don't give explanations. We did the best we could, and there we go. It's about that.

When building your leadership team, one you've built throughout the years, are there any traits you consider non-negotiable, like in leadership, passion? You're not going to get there if you don't. It's too hard without having passion. If you're not passionate about what you're trying to do, you will not win. You will not compete.

Again, it's competition, right? You've got to win the prize more than other people who choose to compete with you, and I try to set the leadership example by paying the price for the team, but no one in a company will rise higher than the price being paid by the leader, so if you think you can hire people to do the work and not pay the price yourself personally, I would disagree. No one's rising above you. You play golf during the week. Other people are going to play golf during the week.

People know, and they just have a good feeling that the person that's involved or running the outfit is committed, cares enough about them to be committed to their future success as they care about their future success. You know, in our industry, typically, more markets than other markets have a high turnover. The turnover can be high, and also in the Asian industry, a lot of the highly experienced talent pool is getting up there, almost retirement age, so how do you approach employer retention and create a workplace where people are excited to be part of the capital title and you have a great culture? We're a very entrepreneurial company. We're comprised of entrepreneurial people.

That's what I'm looking for. Somebody wants to go and grow. They want the football. They want the rock. They have big ideas.

They have big hopes. They're willing, express a willingness to pay the price to accomplish the dreams that they have for their life, and they're talented, obviously, but, you know, they're great performers. You just hire them like we've probably hired since the first of last year over 150 escrow officers, but it's a bad market, but we're investing in the future of this company. They're not performing at A-plus levels even today, but they will, and we're just working with them now, but we will come out of this fog a much stronger and larger company. Just keep getting that market share in the down markets.

That's huge. Get the right people. How are you with technology? I know it keeps changing rapidly. I don't know anything about technology.

We have 35 people in our IT department. We spend in excess of $10 million a year on IT, and I couldn't tell you any more than that. Well said. I don't do technology. I'm not a title nerd.

I don't do technology for a living. I'm in the people and relationship business. You're a serial entrepreneur. You sustain success across different ventures. What do you believe are the keys to building a business that stands the test of time, especially in our crazy cyclical markets?

You have to remember that it's not about me. It's about the people, and you have to be a good servant leader. Servant leadership is an important concept in our cultural segment, so that I'm here to serve the people. I try to make sure that we have the resources at any given time that allow us to grow and project strength in the market and to our team. We invest in bad times, the hardest time to invest, but we're gambling on our future, but it's all about hard work and paying the price and being confident and relationship-oriented and entrepreneurial.

All of those come together with the right people to create success for the team and the individuals for my day. What legacy do you hope to leave in the title industry, and how are you preparing future leaders within your company? Well, I don't have a specific job here, if that tells you anything. So from an operations standpoint, it flies whether I'm in the plane or not. The legacy is, it's all about the people, and people make it, loving your people, loving your client, creating excellence, but we're so much more than a business.

I think business would be boring for me. I'm not really, if it became too much of a business, I wouldn't like it. It's all about the people, it isn't about the profits. It is, I mean, it is about the profits sometimes, but it's all about the people. I heard a speaker once saying that making money, you don't go with anything to make money.

It's like a concert for someone who is a singer or performs a musical instrument. The money is like the applause. It isn't about the profits, it is. I mean, it is about the profits sometimes, but it's all about the people. I heard a speaker once saying that making money.

You don't go with anything to make money. It's like a. Concert for do someone who is a singer or a. Performs a musical instrument, uh, the money is like the applause. You don't do it you don't do it for the applause.

You do it because you love what you're doing. And you've perfected an art or skill. And the money just comes when you do good things. You take care of people, you're entrepreneurial and you work hard. I mean, there's not many people.

In unemployment lines like that and. You still quit, just keep coming. We haven't always been. I consider still always been a great company. That's because I think our values and ideals are great.

And I think our purposes are true. Uh, I think we've had all the right ideas. And our own way, we've been a very, very small, great company. Uh, for many, many years, we just had to be now. A huge.

A great company. But if we went down to 5 people, we would still have a distinctive and great title company. I assure you. Awesome, and you and I were having a conversation last week. We talked about the markets and.

In 2025, would you mind sharing with our audience? What's your. Your humble forecast of 2025? What do you see? It's a new experience and talking to your, uh.

I think it's going to get better, but marginally. So I think we're here. We're not waiting on rates to get. I don't see rates really precipitously dropping. It's really not bad.

Uh, mortgage rates are 6 and a half. By historical standards, that's pretty good. Uh, well, what about refinance? Well, I don't know. I just don't see.

Uh, I, I don't see races. Maturely dropping, you know, someone said. My gut feeling is, is that where's the anomaly in our market? Is we're waiting for 2122 to come back. I don't think it is.

I think we're basically, I think the anomaly was. 21, maybe 20, some of 22. That's the anomaly it's going back to the way it was before. Yeah. That's what I see, so you better learn to do business and win with.

The current market with some improvement. Or you're not going to make, you're not going to make it. I, uh, personally see the same thing where I don't see where it's going, going down anytime soon. And it just it is what it is. We have no control over the markets just to.

What we do, so it's a good thing for. As I said, the cream rise to the top when things get tougher for longer. How about we switch to. That's actually lawsuit and impact and the talent industry, especially, like, the more and more captive business. I think it's a huge issue.

What's going on today is a consolidation of our industry. I don't know who you're viewing audience is. But it's every day. Market share to. Producer on title companies is taking available business away from.

True independent title companies, these behemoths. At teams that are assigned, uh, we continue. I'm an independent agent to write and use these companies. But they're out there every day, putting our customer in the title business. So, good luck and they're buying competitors.

It's very difficult. I look every day at. Every order that's open every house that sells in our. North Texas market, I can assure you. The market available for independent, you know, the independent agents.

Is extremely skinny, but it's 10% or less. And that's that's not always been the way it is. So, I feel feel like. Independent agents have a tough road ahead. Unless they're in niche markets away from busy commercial areas.

So, a lot of, uh, you know, how the East Coast is even more fragmented, like, than Texas or other states. A lot of times I have a lot of competitor friends I talked to, and when they mentioned the word my competitor, I'm like. Like, you really have no idea who your competitor is as the independent agents were competing. As I said last week, we're competing for. The crumbs of the of the cookie.

Uh, the ponds are getting drained primarily by the well financed. Large industry people that we all know, trust and like, frankly, but. Unfortunately, they're trying to grow their company. And, uh, they're trying to grow their company as well. And which I would be where I to be there, but some of these.

There's big moves, uh, you know, uh, you've got compass real estate. TRG bought 20% of them, big home builder. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's big. This is becoming a big money business. Big money starting to push people around.

You agree with that? You see this absolutely, especially like public company. I mean, the big 4, they're all public. Like, they're my compass or my TRG, they all have access to public funds. And, uh, now I get private equity.

It was very active 2 or 3 years ago now kind of quieted a little bit, but it just let a lot of money come in, doing a lot of roll ups and a lot of consolidations is very expensive and very competitive. And those crumbs I was talking about against smaller and smaller and smaller to compete for. Yeah, and we better think about that because that that is a. That's not an existential threat that is a direct threat. Because the pond's getting drained by the consolidation occurring in the industry, the pond, we have deficient.

As independent agents and underwriters. So, well, what any, any words of wisdom or just kind of. Joy kind of play the game or join forces or more kind of. How do you compete against these forces? I guess I tell people.

We have an underwriter 1st National do business with them. They're a good company. I don't think we're, we're not that company is not involved in. Draining the pond, but take a look around and find out who is. And understand there.

That's not an existential threat. That's a direct threat to the future of the industry generally. And if you're in it, it's going to affect you. What was your question other than that? Just Mike?

Okay. We all know this. Eminent threat that's direct and it's real and it's here. What advice you have for title and independent title agents. Like, that you can play play the game consolidates or do you like?

It's not looking. It's not Rosie. I mean, how do you how do you outmaneuver like, they don't sell out. So, don't sell out unless you have to. You know, 1 place you can beat anybody is to if you're in the people in relationship business.

Get out there and make an X, create excellence. In your service, your delivery, and in your customer base. Make a friend be friends with the people. They will be less inclined to leave you. So, pay the price for your success and I think a casual effort.

Is going to produce a really it's going to be difficult for you. You've got to go out there every day. And be in front of your customers selling your product. For eating lunch, I tell people here, you're eating lunch with people who work here. Don't write it off the business.

That's a personal experience. You don't have a customer there that's not considered a business lunch. And so I would say, I used to say in a book, don't eat lunch alone. Well, don't have personal lunches. Find out, try to get an alignment with people like you.

Alignment's a big deal. Are the people with whom you're. Sending the business, are they rewarding you with their business? Or is that is that is it just be for service? So, we're pretty demanding of people who we help becoming.

We demand that they become more than fee for service type people. They need to be bringing something. In a crass way, it's kind of like friends with benefits. We need the benefits. Can't bring the benefits.

You're probably going to, you know, we're not going to be able to. You're not in alignment with us. You're just taken. That's not healthy. You got to have a give and take.

You can't just take any relationship. First taken are the people that are taken from you, giving to you. If not. and fee-for-service type people. They need to be bringing something.

In a crass way, it's kind of like friends with benefits. We need the benefits. Can't bring the benefits, you're probably gonna, you know, we're not gonna be able to, you're not in alignment with us. You're just taken. That's not healthy.

You gotta have a give and take. You can't just take in any relationship. Who's taking, or the people that are taking from you, giving to you. If not, I would confront the people. And I call it having, making, I put them over what I call into the beer drinking friends.

Now, I don't go out drinking. I'm a married man. Been married 42 years. But I put them in the beer drinking friends. In other words, if I'm gonna go out, like I used to fraternity and stuff and drink beer, I'll make sure and give them a call.

But between the hours of eight and five, I discipline myself to make every call a business call, which I'm attempting to get business. And before you know it, you'll end up managing a title company without the resources. Well, where are the resources? What happened to them? They're all the people you didn't go get.

Quit running your company, go out there and get some business. Revenue general, job one. Are you still out there getting business and meeting with realtors or? Every day. But I might go with a marketing person or a closer with, you know, to help support them.

Yes, that's the essence of the business mode. You're going on these calls and you're passing them on to the escrow officer or to the sales rep to manage moving forward after you land a client. Yeah, because I'm busy. So I'm gonna go out, get you known and liked and try to push the relationship off there. But who's gonna go get the larger clients?

The 22 year old kids that just graduated from college or me that have been in the business for 30 something years. Well, I'm gonna have a lot better. So I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna give it to somebody that doesn't. Doesn't, I don't think that's a successful strategy.

What goals do you still have for Capital Title and any other ventures you're still involved with? Well, I guess that we actually do business in 12 states with seven title companies. So Capital was just a starting company, but become a national company. And I think we will over time. I just continue.

We don't really have specific goals like we wanna be this by then, but we wanna continue to grow and expand wherever opportunity presents itself. That's awesome. Do you have a favorite quote? Yes, it's my quote. Your ultimate success will be determined by your ability to build and maintain relationships.

That's awesome. I took a lot of notes, Bill. When I'm looking down, I'm writing notes. If you're not building relationships, you're not building your business. That's awesome.

Something else I do is try to take customers and make them into advocates. That's powerful. So I try to get the customers that are good to go out and sell our company themselves. So making customers advocates is very important. So it's not just me.

I literally think we have thousands of advocates across 12 states that are advocating for our companies and our people every day. That's something we try to do. That's awesome. How about a favorite book? Or a favorite book you read recently?

Well, probably not, maybe not recently, but How to Win Friends and Influence People is a very good book from a long... Is that Carnegie, I think, Bill? Yeah, Dale Carnegie. It's not... And Bob Bodine has a book called The Power of Who.

It's more or less, it's a Christian concept. So he would say, if you have one friend you're liking, if you have five friends, you're really blessed. If you have 12 friends, you can change the world. Wow. So the power of using people you know to build and connect you with the relationships you need to create your future success.

It's all about making the ask. You've got to ask people. It just doesn't come. You deal with people and you think, well, they're not in the title business, obviously. They would send me business.

They'll send it to me originally. No. Get comfortable having uncomfortable moments with people. That's awesome. Absolutely.

It's typically when you say, hey, I want you to commit to me that you're gonna send me that deal somewhere for your business. But always make the ask. Business coach. One of my favorite sales coach. Go ahead.

One of my favorite sales coaches from a long time ago, like I said, the number one lesson in sales, ask questions. Ask questions, ask what the business asks. Always ask, just along with the concept you just talked about, ask him. Yeah, you'll find that a lot of people think they're in the business of supplying data or graphics or being running committees, but they're really not. And nobody rewards somebody for putting a successful charitable event on by sending their business.

This is the set where people asking for the business. That's busy work. Focus on relationships, focusing on asking for the business. And I mean, pretty quickly too. That's awesome.

Any last words of wisdom to our audience of talent agents? You can do it. You can be willing to pay the price you're willing to achieve. You're not gonna get an award for something that you don't pay the price for. But over time, you'll be rewarded for the price that you've paid to achieve the level of success that you've paid the price to get.

Thank you so much, Bill. Well, Bill's story is a true testament to perseverance, vision and the power of a strong team. Thank you for joining us today on the Talent Agents podcast. We found value in this episode. Be sure to subscribe and share with others in the industry who could use a boost of inspiration and insight.

Until next time. Let's go, let's do it. Keep pushing boundaries and stay ahead in the title world. And here's 2025. Bill, thank you so much.

That was tons and tons of wisdom. Great state of Texas. Come see me sometime. See you later. Thank you.

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Shamil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey.