Why Timing Beats Data in Title Sales | Ep 113

In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Choumil stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation. With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Title Agents Podcast. I am your host, Mo Choumil, CEO of Alltech National Title.

Today, I have a pleasure of having Mike Simon, founder and CEO of Agent Brief. Welcome, Mike. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we met at the TRO, Title Reps Only, about over a month ago.

I know our companies use services. And I thought to have you come here and kind of shed some light on what you guys do and how can you add value to our audience of title agents. As we always start off the show, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, your story? So my history is I've been in residential real estate pretty much my entire career, never as an agent, never as a title rep, although I do tell the story that my dad, when I was 18, tried to convince me to be a title attorney, and I spent one summer, sorry, one day doing title closings for him at Long Island Savings Bank in New York. And I said, this is definitely not for me, but I was still in the industry and I enjoyed the industry.

So my history really started in residential real estate soon after college, worked for Realogy for most of my career. Then got into tech about a little over a decade ago, and that's kind of where I sunk my teeth into learning how tech operates in our space. And that was really, you know, kind of gave me the hands-on training to actually start Agent Brief. So I'm a lifer in real estate, but not a tech guy by any means. So what led you to start Agent Brief and what problem were you trying to solve?

Well, the first problem I was trying to solve for what was I going to do with my life? Because I was working for another tech company called List Reports, and that company was sold. And at the time it was sold, I didn't see, really see a role for myself. But fortunate for me, the new owners, the private equity firm that bought us, had asked me, you know, what, what do you want to do? Do you have any ideas?

And I'd been really ideating for a long time about something like Agent Brief. And the problem that I saw was that There was a whole world of real estate data that was delayed. It was late, it was inconsistent, it was unreliable, and it was really poorly timed. And essentially what I noticed was that settlement services, especially title, were using data as a history lesson, just recapping what they already knew. Who did what with whom?

Who cheated on me? What deal did I win? What deal did I lose? How many deals did I win? How many deals did I lose?

And what struck me, my sales hat on, was that the opportunity was in not what's happened, but what's happening now. And that really presented the opportunity for us. Like, could we get access to data essentially in real time and alert our users, ultimately title reps, that, hey, there's something happening in a real estate agent's life. This is a new transactional opportunity for you. This is when you should be reaching out to the agent because it's meaningful and purposeful and relevant.

Versus just constantly looking at old data and historical data, trying to find opportunities because there really aren't any. So I really have coined the phrase that there are no opportunities in history when it comes to data. The opportunity is in what's coming next. So that was really the genesis of this, was really making data accessible, reliable, consistent, and delivering it in a time-sensitive manner. The key word is timely.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, real estate professionals have more technology and information than ever. Um, has that made them more productive or just more overwhelmed? As from title professionals, mortgage professionals? I would say it's the latter.

I'd say it's more overwhelmed. And, um, I think that we've been, we've been all doing this long enough that there's always a shiny new object out there. There's a new technology. There's another data source. And we all get very excited about it.

The problem with all the data and all the technology doesn't come down to the data and the technology. It comes down to the mindset that you have to actually use it. And we learned really, really early on that we will have a very, very short lifespan if we focus on how cool our tech is or how great our data is. We'll have much more success and much more longevity If we actually focus on the missing element, which is mindset. So not how to use the technology, but why am I using it and what is the benefit that I'm looking to get out of it?

So I appreciate the question because it's something we talk about all the time is you're going to get these tools. There's lots of automation. There's AI. I'm sure we'll talk about all this stuff. There's all these things that are designed to make your life simple, but at the end of the day, Real estate, residential real estate spectrum is a relationship business.

So if you keep that in mind that we're in the relationship business, technology should be there to support you. Data should be there to inform you. But if you get so caught up in the data and the technology, you're going to get overwhelmed because you're so focused on how do I use it, not why am I using it? What are the benefits it can provide me? That's a, that's a great point.

What are agents spending time doing today that you believe they simply shouldn't be doing 3 to 5 years from now? I think they're getting lost in the data overwhelm. I think they're getting lost, not to, you know, we partner with lots of CRMs, so I'm not criticizing them, but I think everybody's looking for automation to do their job. Now, I've said this in many panels that I've spoken on. AI can be your best friend.

Automation can be your best friend. Technology can be your best friend if you recognize where it fits into your world. So I appreciate the question from the perspective that there's so much tech coming at us and we're all kind of grasping at, I got to learn that, or I got to be part of that, or I got to have that tool. And it's fine. Some of it you really should have.

FOMO, everybody's fear of missing out kind of thing. It's FOMO. Yeah. But, you know, we have a phrase here at, at Agent Brief. Um, it's called automation sucks.

And what does automation sucks mean? It means that if you try and over-automate your life, cuz you think you have to chase all this technology and you're missing out on something. I think where the, the good agents and the struggling agents kind of diverge today is the ones who still recognize that data and technology are there to support you, but you're in the relationship business. You keep, you have to continue That hand-to-hand combat, that one-to-one interpersonal relations, relationship building that ultimately we know is the key to our success. If you get overwhelmed by technology and think technology can do everything for you, it can follow agents, it can monitor agents, it can alert you, it can send emails, it can engage with them, you've, you've missed the plot.

And I think that's where I see the big problem right now is there's so much tech to learn. But not all that tech is effective in doing the things that ultimately give us the new business opportunities, which is still relationship building. So that's that fork in the road where, yeah, you should use tech, but you have to remember why you're using it and how to use it in an effective way. So how do you decide what should be automated versus where the human relationship still needs to remain front and center? To piggyback off your last comment.

Yeah, I think to simplify it, it's repetitive tasks should be automated. It's fine. Like what? Repetitive. So with Agent Brief, here's an example.

Our 5 features are find, follow, monitor, alert, engage. We built the platform based off of and modeled it after social media platforms. So we operate like Instagram, right? You go into social media platforms, you find things that you're interested in, then you follow them. You don't have to pay attention to Instagram.

Instagram does it for you. It monitors what your interests are, right? Then alerts you that, hey, something is happening, and then you can engage. And that engagement is where the personalization comes in. So I have no issue with somebody wanting to automate prospecting.

We do that. I have no issue with somebody wanting to automate sending alerts and notifications so you know when to act. But acting is personal and acting is the one thing you should never automate because that's where our skills come in as salespeople. Our skills comes in as the relationship builders. So sure, automate prospecting because it's a pain in the butt.

It's a time suck. It takes a lot of effort out of you. Certainly automate alerts so you know when to act. But if you're trying to automate the relationship building, the communication, that builds these relationships, that ultimately finds new opportunities for you. That's where I think we take a very, very hard left turn.

And that's why I say in our world, automation sucks. And that's the thing I'm referring to. That's it. I like that. Uh, from your perspective, um, what do real estate agents actually want from great title partners?

And what do title companies sometimes misunderstand about realtors? Well, I don't want to get shot for saying this, and it's not a trick question, Mo, but what do real estate agents want to talk about more than anything else? Themselves. Perfect answer. Exactly right.

So keep that in mind. And referrals. And referrals, right? What we teach our title reps, we teach our users is, hey, when you're reaching out to a real estate agent about something that matters to them, this agent has a new listing. And you're doing it in a time-sensitive way.

Oh, this agent put this thing in the MLS an hour ago and I'm reaching out to them. And then you're bringing some value and we can talk about different value propositions, but you've accomplished so much in just your timing and your relevance. And that's where I think title reps miss the plot because so many of them come at this from the perspective of, I've gotta tell you about me. I've gotta sell you. I've gotta tell you why my company's great.

that my grandmother started this title company in 1874 and we're the best title company in Northeast Iowa. Nobody cares. They, real estate agents care about what matters to them, which is, I have, I have a new listing. I need help. How can you help me?

So, uh, title companies have access to enormous amounts of transaction and market information. How could they use that information to create more value for their, uh, referral partners? In a compliance matter as well as it comes to data. Again, I don't want to be— sound flip, but I think that the data that exists in the title plants and the, and all of their past transaction history, when it comes to identifying new opportunities, they're still operating in the dark. So I think you have to combine all of the historical data that you have As a title company, past transactions, past histories.

Did we, did we write that title policy the last time around? I think all of that is step 2. The step 1 is you need a, some layer on top of that that tells your salespeople what to do and when to do it. And I see so many title companies getting bogged down in their people using CRMs and data analysis and reporting and tracking and market share analysis and wallet share analysis. Growth comes from action.

And what I find that title companies miss the boat, maybe this was the opportunity for Agent Brief in general, was they still miss that trigger alert. When should my title rep call a real estate agent? And then all that other data matters and all that other history matters. But if you don't know when to do something, then you're kind of disconnected from it and you're just selling, You're not listening, you're not relevant, you're not doing things in a time-sensitive manner. So I appreciate all the data that they have, but I just don't see that data as a— if we're talking about growth, I don't see that past data as a motivator or an instigator for new opportunities.

So we're in the process of building our own kind of proprietary CRM or data analytics platform. Okay. How would you go about it? One of my main things, like trying to solve exactly what you were talking about, like the timeliness and kind of not take advantage, kind of really leveraging the past historic data and also kind of being very strategic on when to contact and when to reach out. And how would you go about it?

Let's say if you have a blank canvas and We're gonna make it as simple as possible for people to use inside ChatGPT or inside Claude or whatever that is. That'd be great. LLM flavor of the day kind of thing. So this is not a new question for us because what, what had happened when we launched Agent Brief mode was that everybody said, you should do this, this, this, this, and this. And I said, that's a CRM.

That's not us. I said, wait, there's an opportunity there. So if you're building your own, Really, once you figure out what you wanna build, we should be your first phone call because we have an API already built in which our alerts and our data can populate your CRM. I'm gonna call you next week, Mike. Because your CRM is only good as what you run.

Garbage in, garbage out. Good data in, good data out. So your CRM is only gonna be as valuable as what you put in it. And no offense to our industry or title reps or anybody we deal with. But managing a CRM is a chore for most people.

And you know what people say, what's the best CRM? The one you use. Yeah. Right? So we have a philosophy.

That's my, that's my goal is really dumbing it, dumb it down as, as, as easy as possible as plugging it. I agree with you. Yeah. And that's where a company like ours, so we had this already out there where you can come in, you can use Agent Brief standalone, be very successful with it. But we have enormous customers out there that have their own CRMs that we created an API for them that Agent Brief can exist within the CRM.

So you're getting the alerts, you're getting the information. It's kind of our environment, it's our frame, but when you need that data, it's right there for you. And that's what'll make your CRM more successful is the access to the data Not just the tracking of activities. Um, so if you owned a title agency today and wanted to embrace AI or automation, where would you start? I say— Loaded question.

Loaded question. Well, it's— I, I actually do, um, a presentation, not a sales pitch, and the presentation I do, it's It's called FAME. It's not important what that means, but FAME is really about no matter what data and technology you use, you have to remember certain things, right? Number one, we're in the relationship business. Okay?

So you have to sur— you have to build a company with people who are very, very skilled at building relationships. That's, that's absolutely number one, full stop. I don't care what else you use, but you have to have people who understand that that is the job in building relationships. Then you need to arm them with data and technology that supports them building relationships. If you, if you take tackle those 2 things at once, right?

Relationship building people with technology and data that's designed to support that activity, you're gonna have all the business opportunities that you want. Everything else is operational and process-oriented and can certainly be built and is easy, more easily accessible. And there's people to do those jobs. But the leading edge of what we do is still, I gotta have relationships with the sources of business that I need, and I need a technology platform that's gonna help me manage that in a really, really effective way. AI comes in At least for me, remember, we're on the front end, we're not on the back end.

So I can't talk about should we automate processing? Should you automate lien searches? Should you automate closing the transaction? I agree with all that AI, but when I go to conferences just like you and I see all these AI companies automating the title process, the one slot that they're missing is the slot that we play in, which is using AI To be creative, to be unique, to deliver good information. It's a way to help title reps be smarter.

It's a way for title reps to be unique and authentic. And it's a way for title reps to not be in this kind of repetitive mode of, I'm just spamming real estate agents. So AI has a purpose in our world by making the title rep stand out to that real estate agent, to call attention to that title rep in an effective way. And the processes that come on the back end of the transaction, that's something that we don't pay much attention to. But the last thing I'll say about this is I get the question all the time is, yes, will AI replace my job as a title rep?

If you use it correctly, absolutely not. It'll make you a better title rep. Because you do the one thing that the AI can't do is have a conversation with somebody. Now, AI can make you look good and give you great data and give you great assets and great tools, but it can't do this part of it. So you have to leverage AI, not rely on AI.

Exactly. So as, uh, technology makes serv— uh, services easier to replicate, what do you think becomes the real competitive advantage for a title agency? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to roll back the clock and get called old school, but I still think— I think old school is cool. I agree.

I don't have gray hair for nothing. I still believe that the title rep that embraces technology, title rep that understands data, But the title rep that also understands the needs of their customer, the real estate agent, is in a far, far better place to succeed. And, you know, I've seen title reps around the country who just shudder at the thought of using technology for anything. And I do think that there's that balance. So I think the winners The title rep winners in the future are going to understand we're in a relationship business, we're in a timing business, we're in a marketing and support business.

We're in a unique business. Let's deliver those things to real estate agents, things that they've never seen before, things that are useful to them. The title rep that brings value at the right moment in time and does it consistently and is reliable. is the secret sauce for a title rep. It's not all the tech that you have.

It's not all the data that you have. It's not the company you work for. It's timing, it's reliability, it's consistency. Those are the things that ultimately pay off. So what's that one thing you believe about a future of real estate technology that most people in the industry might disagree with?

Well, that The relationship business will never end. Like, we're always going to do this. I don't know what the conventional wisdom is out there, but I do know that a lot of competitive products to ours are talking about everything will be automated. And I am not of that mindset. You know, I've been around enough real estate companies, enough settlement companies.

I built enough tech platforms to see that in my 35 years of doing this, that the relationship side never changes. It's just some, it's just a miraculous thing that the people skills, and I, I, I see this in my own company, you know, especially the younger generations that are, that are working for me, is they've been desensitized to the ability to have a conversation. They've been desensitized to the ability to walk up to somebody and introduce yourself. They've been desensitized to the ability to just say, I can provide you value. So I think to be a contrarian, if I'm a contrarian on anything, it's that I do not believe that you can replace human beings in our business.

I just don't believe it. The other thing that I'm worried about to death is how archaic Real estate data is, you know, we are not, you know, a pro— you know, we're not a progressive industry. We have a lot of fiefdoms. We have a lot of, you know, kind of competing priorities. At the end of the day, the internet exposed real estate data to the masses, to consumers.

That's great. Consumers are smarter. Consumers know what's going on. That's a good thing. But inside the industry, the accessibility of data, the free flow of information, I think if there's too much self-interest, if there's too much people just trying to create walled gardens around, these are my listings, this is my data, I'm not sharing with anybody else.

I think that's really going to hurt the industry. So I am really a proponent, and this I think is contrarian at the moment. I'm a real big proponent of kind of this free flow of data that will make everybody's lives easier. It'll serve the B2B relationships better, and it'll certainly serve the B2C relationships better. What do you think the most successful real estate companies and title professionals will be doing 5 years from now?

Besides, obviously, the relationship. You keep saying that word over and over again, and I totally agree with you. They're probably still fighting with each other, you know, we're going to just still at odds. I don't have a good, I don't have a good sense that consolidation is really going to help our industry. I think that the ability for new players and new ideas and evolution to continue to have a place in our world where new ideas are seen and looked at and embraced versus what you're seeing right now, which is like retraction, you know, less companies, less variety, lots of cookie-cutterness that's happening in the business.

And I think these are kind of ebbs and flows. Like when I was at Realogy and Cendant back in the '90s and the early 2000s, we were the consolidator and we were the flavor of the month. And then we weren't the flavor of the month. Then Compass came in and they were the flavor of the month and then they consolidated. So you see these kind of ebbs and flows of consolidation.

And I think that consolidation, that introspectiveness hurts creativity. So my hope is, is that we're at the tail end of consolidation, and then we're going to see this rebirth of innovation. And I think that innovation is what I'm excited about. That's awesome. So coming close to the end of our podcast, and I always ask my guests a couple of questions.

Sure. One of them is, do you have a favorite quote? Do I have a favorite quote? Yeah, it's one I just came up with. It's called basically that relationships are not a moment in time, they're moments over time.

That's my new quote and I've been using it a lot lately. I don't know if I coined that phrase, but I like it. I'm doing it for you. It's yours. He claimed it and it's live right here.

And so it's definitely set in Set in stone. So that's my, that's my favorite business quote. My favorite lyric from a song is, I'm going where the climate suits my clothes, which is why I left New York and moved to California. So that's a Grateful Dead song. We could talk about that later.

How about a favorite book? Um, most recent favorite book, Boys in the Boat. I don't know if you've read it, but phenomenal story. Is that a novel or is that a— It's nonfiction. It's, it's, it's, it's a true story about, uh, the University of Washington's Crew Team, um, right around the time of the Berlin Olympics.

It's a phenomenal book about— I saw— I watched the movie, I believe. Yeah, movie was great. The book blows it away. Oh, wow. Like any book, you know, the book is great.

So I highly recommend it. About— it's about perseverance. It's about, you know, kind of the looking at what's going on in the times. Certainly it's about prejudice, but it's, it's really about, you know, kind of people kind of committing to a task committing to a team, all, not to use the metaphor, but all rowing in the same direction. And I send it to my team to read because, you know, as an entrepreneur, startup company, you know, getting everybody on the same page to look at something bigger than themselves as the endgame, I think that's really the message of Boys in the Boat.

That's awesome. So, well, before I forgot to ask you a question, what's next in your Agent Brief? What's, what are you guys working on that you can share? Sure. Well, one, you know, we're expanding, so we're expanding into new verticals.

We were very, very ahead of the curve because the title industry didn't really have its own data source. They were using other data platforms from other industries, lending and insurance and things like that. So we gave title its kind of its own baby that they could say that was, that, that started in title first. But the problem is, is that now all those other industries are interested. So we're actually expanding into lending.

We're in, we're already in the home warranty space. We're in the homeowner's insurance space. So market expansion is a big thing for us, or vertical expansion. And then the second thing is we, we have this philosophy about assets. How can we better educate title reps and give them things that are really cutting edge that they can show to real estate agents that will enlighten them.

We have a product that just launched, small plug here, called the Buyer Trend Analysis. It really is the first time that a title rep can provide something to a real estate agent that says it's not a CMA, it's not a net sheet, it's not a prelim, it's not transaction-oriented. It's Who's actually buying homes in this neighborhood? And we launched this product about a month and a half ago, and it exploded because it's actually helping title reps talk to real estate agents, not about what sold, not about what price, but in this world, who's buying? Why are they buying?

How does the property that you're trying to sell match up to the buyer's interests and how to use data and technology to better advertise and market the property. So the buyer trend analysis is kind of our first entry into some very, very unique marketing assets that are going to be available through the platform. That's awesome. Any last words for our audience? Keep the faith.

The industry feels healthy. It feels like there's a resurgence happening here. As we were talking about in the beginning of the call, You know, I see such a very, very high level of interest in activity in educating themselves. Title reps are interested. They're educating themselves.

They're taking classes. They're learning how to be better salespeople. They're learning technology. You have to embrace what's new. And I am so energized by the level of interest that even run-of-the-mill, you know, kind of died-in-the-wool title reps who've been in the industry for a long time are taking in data and technology and what's next and how to improve.

It's not stagnant anymore. And that is the most encouraging thing that I see out there is that people got to a tipping point, Mo, where they said, okay, I've been doing it this way for such a long time. We were very successful, but the business is changing and evolving before my eyes. And when we first started, I did not see that the level of embracing what's new in our world. And now 3 and a half years in, it's a totally different world.

Even at David's conference, you know, at the TRO, you see it, you see this energy, this leveling up, learning and being willing to just embrace new things, I think is a good sign for our industry. Absolutely. The whole point of this podcast, so it's the framework was LEAP is honoring the legacy. Then E is for evolution, evolving. And then A, automation.

This is even before AI was AI. Yeah. And P, pioneering. Like, literally, the whole point of the podcast is to kind of open the eyes of the title agency owners and sales reps and operation people. That's the whole point of this show.

So it's great to have people like yourselves that are really in the frontier end of of technology and where things are heading. Thank you so much, Mike. I truly appreciate you. Thank you, Mo. Appreciate you.

Thanks for having me. Well, thank you everyone for listening or watching on YouTube. And if you liked this episode, then please highly, highly recommend giving us a like or a 5-star review on YouTube, Spotify, podcasts, or whatever platform you use to listen or watch the show. Thank you everyone, and until next time. In a world where change is the only constant, Mo Choumil In this podcast, Alltech National Title stands at the forefront, guiding title professionals to not just grow their businesses, but to master the art of innovation.

With every episode, you're handed the keys to unlock unparalleled growth and stay ahead of the curve. Get ready for a transformative journey. Alltech National Title is a member of the Allstate